Kymco AK 550 heated grips

[rjs987]

Just heard back from the dealer. They did find the problem. The shop tech set the AK on its center stand and started the engine and turned on the heated grips and let it run for some time. The shop tech then blasted the grips and also the controller with freeze spray. When the controller was sprayed and cooled the heated grips system failed and showed a fail code. So we have a winner... er... loser!

I had done this in my driveway when the temp was around 23F and the heated grips worked flawlessly when I did that but failed when I actually rode down the road in less than a mile at that temp. I don't have any freeze spray. The experiment I did told me there should be nothing wrong with the grip heater elements and likely nothing wrong with the grip heat thermal sensor which should be for sensing the temperature of the heater elements at the grips. The temp inside the body work of the AK would be slightly warmed by engine heat and the only part that would be affected by that would be the controller. So what the shop tech found supports what I suspected.

The warranty coordinator called me asking to verify the correct part number for the controller since she recalled I had sent them that info but couldn't read the label in the picture that Kymco USA sent me and that I had forwarded to the dealer. I had the number written down, so now the dealer is ordering the part from Kymco. Hoping to finish this within a few weeks... given that parts shipping can be very slow.

Getting very restless waiting for it now since the last few days the streets and driveway have been bone dry and clear. Perfect for riding.

[rjs987]

Just noticed in the email the tech department of Kymco USA sent me with the heated grips information, including the corrected controller part number, they also stated that they have the right part in stock at Kymco USA so shipping won't take as long as coming from Taiwan.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I read that perspective buyers are following these lengthy lengthy sagas with these 550's.
Worrisome and surprising - since the scooter is new only to the USA.

Stig

[rjs987]

I read that perspective buys are following these lengthy lengthy sagas with these 550's.
Worrisome and surprising - since the scooter is new only to the USA.

Stig

This thread is actually no different than other threads I've written for my last 4 bikes on their respective forums. I only do this for the benefit of others considering a model and wondering about how things get worked out. As I've found, there really is not much difference between this and any other make or model of bike when warranty work or even out of warranty work is needed.


Of course, I believe it does help that I get involved at the regional level or higher if possible and also work with the dealer to learn as much information as I can and pass on what I learn.

[Ruffus]

Seems to be like stated there..
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=32011.msg224802#msg224802

[rjs987]

Well, My AK 550 is back in my garage. Rented the U-Haul mc trailer again to pick it up today. $14.95+tax is not a bad price to pay for a really nice mc trailer. My wife was busy today with daycare of our youngest granddaughter. The Warranty Coordinator said she took it out for test ride to test the problem and the cure and confirmed the problem was fixed with a generous application of freeze spray with the heated grips controller in the bike as well as on the test bench out of the bike. The original controller unit failed all tests as I already knew it would. The new controller unit passed all tests as I was hoping it would.

Now for my own confidence building test ride. But that will have to wait for this weekend. Since the original controller only failed while riding in temps below 26F I have to wait for those temps to return to verify the repair. Saturday the high will be 25F, but will take a half day to get up to that from 4F. Sunday the high temp will be 21F coming up from a morning temp of 7F. So either day will work. As I suspected the dealer did not put the bike on any battery tender but with a little bit of riding the battery was barely enough to start the scooter. When I turned it on to ride it onto the trailer the battery voltage showed around 11.5v so I was surprised that it did start. But it started right up without any hesitation. So I guess this starter system doesn't need a full battery to start the bike. Good to know.

Yesterday I received highly recommended (by a member on the ST-Owners forum) handlebar mitts by Kemimoto. So I'll be trying those as well when I ride this weekend. My heated grips connectors will be hiding in the under seat storage just in case but if all goes well I won't need that system.Here's a link to the Kemimoto mitts.

Universal Touch-friendly Winter Gloves

[rjs987]

I am considering this case closed.
Went out for a 22 mile ride this morning. The sun was shining and the pavement was clear and dry. The temp started out about 7F and went up to around 10F by the end of the ride. I had the Kemimoto mitts installed. They have a clear pocket on top of the right mitt that I put my temp sensor in with the probe hanging out in the wind so I was going by that.

Traveled mostly in town but still some faster roads up to 55 mph as well as a lot of 35 and 45 mph. The original problem was that the heated grips would fail at any temp below 27F within a mile of riding down the road. That meant for me that I was going 40 mph since I have at least a mile on the main road at the end of my street to go anywhere. During this ride I stopped twice to grab and place a tag early in the ride so more than half the ride was non-stop. The heated grips were set to high for the first half of the trip and worked flawlessly the entire time. The Kemimoto mitts were a big bonus keeping my hands warm even out to my finger tips. The heat setting on high started feeling too hot to turned it down to medium and then low. Was a little surprised about that but that means I can ride much colder without my hands getting cold at all. It also means I'll likely no longer need to install my heated gloves system. Debating if I want to sell that.

Here is one picture of the Kemimoto mitts.

[jermwars]

Rob - "...battery was barely enough to start the scooter. When I turned it on to ride it onto the trailer the battery voltage showed around 11.5v so I was surprised that it did start. But it started right up without any hesitation."

That really IS good to know...I kinda wondered if that was the case and there was no point in me getting the spendy Li replacment battery just because i was dipping down to 12.2

Its supposed to last a really long time though so maybe it will be worth the cost.

[rjs987]

Well, I spoke too soon earlier.
This case is NOT closed!!!
Yesterday I went for a 22 mile ride with the heated grips set to high for over half the ride and then I turned them down to low for the rest of the ride. I was also trying out my new Kemimoto handlebar muffs along with the heated grips. Everything worked great on that ride. The ambient temps ranged from 7F to 10F so plenty cold for any issue with the controller to show up.

But me thinking that I need to replicate the exact situation when they failed before so I went for a 7 mile ride today. The ambient air temp was around 14F, still colder than when the problem originally showed up. But this time I did not have the muffs on the bars and wore my thickest gloves. The heated grips set on high failed within 2 miles. I did have my phone plugged into the USB port and that is on the same fuse circuit as the heated grips. So I stopped after 4 miles and unplugged my phone to take it out of the circuit. Again, the heated grips set on high failed within the next 2 miles.

This time I paid close attention to the fail flash code showing up on the grip LED. Both times it failed the code was 2 quick flashes followed by a pause, then repeat over and over until the bike was turned off. Per the service manual this indicates that the handlebar heater temp sensor is faulty. Not the controller unit that was just replaced.

It is possible that both items were faulty before but that the temp sensor didn't fail for the dealer but the controller unit did. The controller unit failed during bench testing so it was definitely bad. The heated grips likely worked flawlessly yesterday because I had the handlebar muffs covering the handlebars... protecting the handlebar heater temp sensor from the ambient temp while riding. I suppose if I have to I can just continue to ride with the bar muffs installed. BUT this is all still under warranty and should be working without me doing anything to make up for a failing part. And that is exactly why I went out today without the muffs. I need the heated grips to be working as intended from the factory at any temp that is commonly experienced in my area. And I ride at all of those temps no matter how low they go. OK, I might not ride if the temp drops to -20F (-28.9C). But that temp very rare around here. It is common to see a temp as low as -4F (-20C) around here during the cold season. And I don't want anything to prevent me from riding then other than snow/ice on the pavement.

So it turns out that both the controller and the handlebar heater temp sensor were defective. Rather bummed now since that means another trip to the dealer. And, looking at the weather reports for the next 2 weeks, it is unlikely that I'll be seeing the temps drop again to a level cold enough to verify any repair until next year.

[rjs987]

Decided it would be a good idea to cross check my results and testing by getting another ride in WITH the muffs on the bars again. Went on another ride tonight just before sunset at 15F and with the muffs on the bars no errors or fails with the heated grips throughout the 8.5 mile ride. So definitely they fail when the handlebars are not covered and sheltered from the cold temps by the muffs this time around.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Is the dealer hearing from KYMCOUSA that this is due to a bad batch of parts?....bad design, poor assembly?.....or your scooter unlucky?
I ask because we learned here that a bad batch of throttle position sensors on throttle bodies showed up on some 2012 Kymco LIKE200I models. It was only coming to light on the 2012's, and it seemed to be a bad batch of parts (out-sourced?) rather than design or assembly.
Stig

[rjs987]

Is the dealer hearing from KYMCOUSA that this is due to a bad batch of parts?....bad design, poor assembly?.....or your scooter unlucky?
I ask because we learned here that a bad batch of throttle position sensors on throttle bodies showed up on some 2012 Kymco LIKE200I models. It was only coming to light on the 2012's, and it seemed to be a bad batch of parts (out-sourced?) rather than design or assembly.
Stig

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a bad batch of parts but I have no information from anyone about that. The only discrepancy I've been told about by KymcoUSA is that the part number for the controller unit in the service manual is wrong and they gave me the correct part number which I passed on to the dealer (they also received that info from KymcoUSA).
It wouldn't surprise me if the heated grips system was outsourced.

[rjs987]

Heard back from the dealer today. KymcoUSA is going through them for all information that they are passing to me which is reasonable since I was attempting to take advantage of a contact at KymcoUSA but really should be working through the dealer anyway.

On the current status of this issue Kymco told the dealer that based on all my testing that I have documented that it is their opinion that battery voltage/current is dropping too low for the heated grips to work properly. They also stated that the temps I reported riding in are well within what is acceptable for the heated grips to work so the ambient air temp is not the problem. The idea is that if the handlebar heater temp sensor is working at any air temp then that is not really the problem. I can totally understand if at very low ambient air temps the heated grips draw more on the battery than at warmer (relatively) air temps. And also that the handlebar muffs shield the grips from the colder air temps allowing them to operate more efficiently without drawing down the battery as much. This all indicates that the original factory installed battery may not be able to keep up in cold weather.

This would not be the first time I've heard of a factory supplied battery in ANY BRAND of bike being a bit less capable than any replacement would be. Even if the replacement is the same source brand. I've heard of this issue with every brand and model of bike that I know of.

The factory OEM battery that I have in my AK 550 is a Kymco branded Yuasa TTZ14S. Here in the USA the one available that is the same thing is the Yuasa YTZ14S. All the same specs but filled at the factory. This is a 11.8 Ah (20 HR) or 11.2Ah (10 HR) class battery. I looked more closely at the electrical diagrams I have and that shows a 14 Ah battery. The main thing I am thinking right now is that since the battery installed is Kymco branded then it may not be exactly the same quality as a battery direct from Yuasa even of the same model number. The difference between TTZ and YTZ batteries is that TTZ batteries come with an acid pack that must be used to fill the battery when it is put into service and YTZ batteries come from the factory with the acid already in the battery. Both are sealed AGM batteries. Those overseas members (not in the USA) already know this most likely.

All this is consistent with the additional detail that the same circuit that powers the heated grips also powers the USB port in the glove box and when my phone is plugged into that it stops charging at the same time as when the heated grips stop working. Yet my phone keeps charging when I am using the handlebar muffs just like the heated grips keep working.

In the next day or two I'll be going out for another test ride and this time pay particular attention to the battery voltage indicated on the dash volt meter. I did verify tonight that the indicated voltage is not just alternator output but actually what the voltage is showing at the battery. I tested with my meter on the Battery Tender plug while the bike was turned off and also while the bike was running on the center stand. The Battery Tender cable is directly connected to the battery only so shows the actual battery voltage at the battery same as what would be "seen" by any of the bike systems while the bike is running.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Is the battery upright, or on its side (like a Burgman)?
I made certain I used a factory sealed 14Ah Yuasa in the Suzuki.
....though none are supposed to leak.
Wiring, charging system, battery, switches?
Seems something is not up to the job for the accessories.
Stig

[rjs987]

Is the battery upright, or on its side (like a Burgman)?
I made certain I used a factory sealed 14Ah Yuasa in the Suzuki.
....though none are supposed to leak.
Wiring, charging system, battery, switches?
Seems something is not up to the job for the accessories.
Stig

The battery sits with the top up. Just like my Burgman 650 was. And yes, it's an AGM sealed battery so won't leak even if it were on its side.
On the AK the battery is located in front of the dash instruments under the front cover up top. Still, the battery getting cold is not the issue but rather likely the cold air hitting the grips and/or the connections and sensor at the grips since there is no problem when the muffs are covering those. The battery is still exposed the same with or without the muffs. I'll just be using the muffs anyway since it is much warmer at very low temps and when it's time to replace the battery I'll go with something better, hopefully, than the Kymco branded battery.