AK550 DEAD, fully charged battery

[jemo]

I ride my AK550 daily, it's really my main transportation and yesterday I turned the ignition to 10 o'clock as I usually do and pushed the power button.  Nothing.  I plugged in the battery tender and the battery was a little low, left it overnight and went out again today.  Battery is fully charged and still completely dead.  Any ideas what may be going on?  Could it be the remote?  When I press the button, the LED light doesn't illuminate.  I can't remember if that means the battery is dead or alive.  Further, I put the fob on the dash in the spot and still nothing. 

Can I open the seat with a dead bike?  I'd like to get my things out of there.

Thanks,
Jeff

[rjs987]

Yes. When you press the button on the fob and the LED does not even flash at all then the fob battery is dead.


Try this:
Place the fob with the Kymco oval side down on the circle pattern on the panel just up from the right glove box door. (fob button up).
Then try turning on the AK again. That circle pattern is the location of the sensor that picks up the antenna foil inside the fob to enable starting when the fob battery is dead.


Let us know if that does anything.


edit: reread the OP and noted that you did try putting the fob on that circle spot. But did you put it with the correct side down?

[Stig / Major Tom]

Doesn't this scooter have a back-up manual lever behind a keyed door to open the seat?.....for use when all batteries are dead.
Also,  can't you insert a key in this scooter to turn it on for starting!!?
Stig

[Tromper]

Do you hear the fuel pump run a bit when you key it initially?
Could this be a stuck side stand switch?

[rjs987]

No manual lever for the seat behind any keyed door. No keys at all on this scooter. There is only a keyless remote fob that has no key in it. And only the keyless ignition knob can open the seat.
When the bike is actually turned off completely the ignition knob just spins freely without being able to activate anything. Like it's just not attached to the switch.

Also, no key so no way to hear any fuel pump when turning a key that isn't there. This scooter is totally keyless. Side stand switch does prevent the starter from working but does not prevent the bike keyless switch and dash from turning on (lighting up).

Have you replaced the battery in the fob once before?... and lost the antenna foil that is inside the casing?

BTW- I haven't yet figured out how to install an emergency seat latch release like I had on my Burgman 650. The Burgman was known for once in a rare while getting water in the seat release cable sheath and having that cable break due to rust. So many owners added a back up steel cable to pull manually to release the seat latch. The end was usually well hidden.
It's not that I haven't been "able" to figure it out on my AK. I just haven't taken the time to do it. Too late for this case however.

[rjs987]

Just took my fob apart to test the operation using just the shell with the foil antenna on the spot in the dash.
I found that the foil antenna MUST be over that spot exactly for it to work. That foil antenna is at the fat end of the fob. So not where the silver/black Kymco oval emblem. But if you have the rubber cover on the fob then put the molded letters "AK" over that spot. If you don't have the rubber cover on the fob then put the FCC strip/label over that spot. This is exact placement or it will not work at all. I tried this several times to make sure.


Let us know how that goes.

[rjs987]

I was thinking some more on this...
On the Burgman 650 if that seat latch cable did break it would happen about half way along the step through tunnel. The cable was routed along the frame on the right side and if the maintenance cover were removed the cable could be grabbed with pliers after the break and jerked really hard to release the seat latch. That was on the Burgman 650.


The AK has a manual seat latch release that is only available when the ignition switch is turned to the handle bar lock position and then turned to the left just a little more. This is the only manual seat latch release on the AK. But like everything else on the AK it only works when the ignition switch is active. I looked in my service manual for the AK 550 and noted that the manual seat latch cable is likely visible when the air filter cover is removed in the step through area. There are 4 plastic fasteners that hold that cover on. Remove the cover and there are a few cables that are visible in that opening. I don't know which on is the seat latch cable... yet. I think that would be the only way to open the seat without turning on the ignition switch.

[CROSSBOLT]

While you all are getting batteries for your fobs, get good, brand name button cells or you will have "fob failure!" I got some china cheapos from Amazon and they are so bad... how bad are they? They are SO BAD, they will not start a big Segway unless you put it face down at a certain spot on the Segway! These are s'posed to operate up to several feet away! They came in a 10-pack....

[jemo]

Thank you all for your help.  I guess it has to be the fob.  A little disheartening because the first fob lost it's battery about a month ago then this one that had never been used and altogether the bike is only a year old. 

More importantly, I had zero warning it was about to go out.  I guess I'll keep a spare battery in one of the cubby's but from the videos I've seen on swapping batteries, that's not an easy task either necessarily.  Now I know why the new AK's have an actual release for the seat and fuel so the ignition doesn't have to be on in order to open. I wish it could be retrofitted to ours.

On a similar vein, I always feel these batteries are under more strain because the ignition is on a lot without the bike running because I like to open the seat, put on my helmet or take it off while the bike is on the sidestand and obviously it can't be running on the side stand.  Very poor design.

[rjs987]

I found it not so hard to open the fob case. Have done it a few times now. The only function of the fob is to enable turning on the keyless switch to connect to the switch knob. After that the fob is not needed for any other function on the bike.
I am not surprised the battery for both fobs went dead close to the same time. The fob is always on. The puzzling part is why it doesn't work for the fob to be recognized by the bike at that circle spot on the right dash panel. I've tested mine a few times now without the battery in the fob and it works for me.

I'll have to look into installing that back up latch release on mine and I'll post about it here for others to be able to do it. It will require taking off a panel or two however to get to the latch. Only need to get to one side since one cable operates both latches together as it is.

I know the AK 550 ST has separate buttons for the seat release and gas door release, but does that really mean the bike does not have to be turned on to use them? I'd like to read where it says that. I'm not so sure I'd like the buttons to operate like that since that rather completely defeats any security of having a locking seat or gas cap cover. With the current AK this seat latch setup is more secure than other scooters I've look into. Even the Burgman seat latch could be defeated by simply removing a tail panel, which is really easy to do. Well, for the models up to 2012. They changed the latch frame in 2013 to make it more difficult, though not impossible. You may as well simply "fix" the seat latches to not latch at all in that case... once you get it opened.

[jemo]

Yes, I meant with this type of ignition, the 12V battery must be strained being on so much without the bike running.

Good point, the new AKs must have something that prevents one from opening the fuel or seat without a key present. On my last scooter you turned the key the opposite direction from Start and that allowed entry.

I suppose the learning point from all this is replace the fob battery every year whether you think it needs it or not.

[CROSSBOLT]

BTW- I haven't yet figured out how to install an emergency seat latch release like I had on my Burgman 650. The Burgman was known for once in a rare while getting water in the seat release cable sheath and having that cable break due to rust. So many owners added a back up steel cable to pull manually to release the seat latch. The end was usually well hidden.
It's not that I haven't been "able" to figure it out on my AK. I just haven't taken the time to do it. Too late for this case however.

This rusty cable is EXACTLY how it failed on my DT300i. It now has stainless cables and "secret" latch trip wires for access.

[rjs987]

...
I suppose the learning point from all this is replace the fob battery every year whether you think it needs it or not.

OR replace the battery in the one right away before the battery dies in the other?
I would feel vulnerable if I didn't have my spare fob working. I also tested that dead battery function right away just to make sure I knew how to do it. But keeping a spare battery available is good.


I meant to mention before that most vehicles these days with keyless ignition have that keyless sensor system "always on" just like the AK. My 2015 Rav4 has keyless ignition. Only a push button to start it and no place to insert a key. The Rav4 also does exactly the same for when the battery in the fob dies. Had that happen for both fobs within a week of each other. Placed the logo on the fob up to the start button and the Rav4 turns on, then I could hold the brake and push the start button to start the engine... just like on a scooter!
The Rav4 fob does have a key to pull out but that is ONLY to unlock the doors. There is no place to put a key to start the vehicle. Since the AK does not have doors there is no need for the key.


I have determined through experience with it that the AK battery will maintain plenty of charge to start the bike, normally, for up to a week at least. Possibly longer but I didn't go longer than that when I tested that idea. My experience with OEM bike batteries is that they are usually sub-par compared with any aftermarket battery, even of the same manufacturer. One of the reasons I always plug in my Battery Tender any time the AK is parked in my garage. I'm not worried about not doing that while on my camping trip of 5 days since I'll most likely ride every other day at the very least.


But it still bothers me about this situation. Curious why the scooter won't turn on when the correct location of the fob is placed on that circle emblem. It does matter what part of the fob covers that emblem. The wrong part and it won't work.