Author Topic: Could really use some help please  (Read 3634 times)

clrains

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2023, 08:49:09 AM »
I will check that when I get back home, had to travel for work and will resume diagnostics on the Kymco Saturday. I do sincerely appreciate you guys helping try to figure out the problem. I will update Saturday afternoon.

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2023, 10:44:44 AM »
Two of my thoughts:
The scoot was running and seemed to be okay on your tour, just didn't start after it was let overnight.

A) you spray some starterfluid in it and it "chugs" once.
-so there might be a spark of some kind, but weak
means for me either not enough fluid or too much
or too weak spark (cap/plug not right somehow)

B) your airsystem is for whatever reason choked and blocks air and fuel to reach your cylinder (as a result of dissambling)
For both points I would check first the plugs condition (wet/oily/demaged) then judge upon that.
Make 100% sure your cap is on the plug.
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

clrains

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2023, 03:39:51 PM »
Hello Guys, this is where I’m currently at with the bike

Good injector stream
Good pressure with fuel pump
Kill switch operational
Side stand switch operational
Good spark at plug
Tight connection with spark plug boot
Charged battery 12.8. when cranking bike, battery drops to 11.7.
I have reset the TPS using the instructions provided (thank you for pointing me to that post)
Bike will still not start. Even with a shot of starting fluid or gas into the throttle body

Now I’m at a loss. The only other 2 things I can think of is the
Idle air bypass valve (choke) or the mass air flow sensor. Both of which are kind of pricey.

Anyone have any other ideas of things I need to look at. 
Again, thanks for the help.

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2023, 04:35:13 PM »
Take once again a second battery and jumpstart.
Take another sparkplug , preferabley new.

Take as a last resort, your plastik intake pipe behind your throttle body off and pour fresh fuel in this body.
Starts it's fine, if not check how the plug looks like?
Wet or not?

If wet, plug in again, crank again until starts.
If dry, something wrong with your valves.

Q: did you do anything to or at your scoots generator/stator to change the pick-ups position?

Faulty mass flow sensor would draw a failure code.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 06:22:50 PM by Ruffus »
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2023, 09:46:33 PM »
Valve timing?
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2023, 10:07:24 PM »
Yes, one of several possibilities..
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

clrains

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2023, 11:32:47 PM »
I will check everything you have suggested Later in the week. I fly out tomorrow for work.
I will update when I know more.  Thanks again.

clrains

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2023, 11:34:30 PM »
I have not done anything to the atl\ generator

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2023, 10:29:53 AM »
Ok, we hook off the generator and pickup..

So, my bet is still on this sparkplug cap being not proper on its plug!
Because:
- we have a spark with plug out
- we have fuel by its injector (is there really fuel in it?)
- it's cranking properly

The injection models have a NO START feature, means if you open the throttle during cranking it will NOT start, to avoid accidentily taking off like a rocket.
So, no WOT during cranking, no touching the throttle grip!

Is this middle plastic cover (middle tunnel) completely off?
With this NOT removed, is it nearly impossible to put sparkplug cap properly on plug.
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2023, 01:40:35 PM »
Q: if you watch att. pic, what and where did you dissasamble exactely on this throttle body.

-there on top is an inbus screw which is plombed by a speck of paint, was is that?
-this spring there has a certain tension, maybe that?
-throttle position sensor not hooked up?
-throttle flap inactive?
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

clrains

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2023, 02:14:22 PM »
Yes I do have the tunnel removed giving access to the engine. 
As for the throttle body. The only 3 things I have removed is the rubber hose on the back coming from the air box. The mass airflow sensor and idle air bypass valve.
I have not removed the TPS sensor. 

The fuel tank is full. With the injector out and cranking, it produces a beautiful spray. It is a new injector, the old injector would only spurt out of one hole, that’s why at first I figured it was the injector.

The one thing I have not done is after putting either starting fluid or gas into the throttle body and trying to start is check the plug immediately after to see if it’s wet or dry. I will do that and see how the plug looks.

Could the TPS sensor be bad?  Does it throw a code or engine light if not working properly?

I have read about a diagnostic tool that you can plug into a connection back by the battery, any chance that is would help me if I found one of those?

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2023, 03:28:18 PM »
I have read about a diagnostic tool that you can plug into a connection back by the battery, any chance that is would help me if I found one of those?

It may help but generally only confirms what you find or suspect. I think it is kinda neat but it will make some testing easier. I don't think it is absolutely neccessary. For example, it would have shown nothing of your clogged original injector. You had to actually SEE the spray pattern. That was not the cause anyway.

We are all missing something here....
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2023, 05:54:18 PM »
Ok, try this fuel thing, then we will know more.
Yes, sensors can get down without warning, but CEL would be on.
MAS is a very sensitive piece, if the needle point is demaged, no data, no start. Bypass valve is tougher. But let's see.
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

Ruffus

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2023, 11:55:46 AM »
As CROSSBOLT says, "we are missing something here".

Remote cristalballing is not always easy. What I would do if I had this scoot here in my workshop:

-unplug all electrics from throttle body, injector etc. no matter what failure code it would draw
-put a humble 40mm carburator on this throttle body (smtg like that see pic)
-connect this carb with an external fuel supply and gas cable
-start the scoot
Now I would see what its doing, limping or running just fine motorwise.

So I would go now backwards step by step to see which part is challenging me.
At the end it will show either EFI or ignition or valves or something else.

I know this is unconventional but sometimes the only way to go.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 11:59:44 AM by Ruffus »
Happy and safe scootering, Ruffus

clrains

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Re: Could really use some help please
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2023, 06:40:26 PM »
Good afternoon guys. Sorry for the delay but sometimes work gets in the way.
So this is where I’m at currently. 
Everything at the throttle body is put back together.
I remove the air filter and shot some starting fluid in the air filter opening.
Bike will start and run. I have a 40 second video of bike running.
Turn the bike off and reinstall air filter, bike won’t start.
Remove the air filter again and try to start. No start. Small shot of starting fluid bike starts.
But now I have the check engine light is on.  The last day I rode this bike there was no check engine light.

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