Veteran's Day & 'My Life'

[Stig / Major Tom]

Following up on Neil's, MY LIFE post ....well, my daughter says I've likely worn out a couple of Guardian Angels along the way.

 I do not spend many days thinking about my time in the service. Veteran's Day is one when I do.

My back-story: in the 1960's I petitioned my draft board to have my draft status changed from 1-A (prime beef) to 1-AO (prime beef, less 7lbs of rifle. A conscientious objector, who agrees to serve in combat, weaponless). A 1-AO status forces the Army to make me a medic.  Amazingly -  the draft board agreed.
Soon I was off to Ft Sam Houston TX as a 'C.O.' for abbreviated basic training (6 weeks, no weapons,  - mostly with 7th Day Adventists) Then we joined 100's of regular, smarter, Americans and went through 10 wks of training to become combat medics. They could carry a weapon -
My test scores allowed me many extra weeks of training and OJT in the big Brooke Army Medical Center.
B.A.M.C. was the burn center for all branches of the service. (one assignment was to unload airplanes filled with casualties at a local AF base - we stacked them on busses and delivered them to the correct wards at BAMC --- a real wake-up call, if I needed one)

By the middle of this war we were going over alone,  I was on a 707 filled with like strangers. I was assigned to replace a medic going home after 18 mos in the central highlands. He mentored me for 15 days, handed me some medical books sent from the States.....and told me not to volunteer for "any d__n thing!" ("buddy volunteered for door gunner - Huey went down,  We only ID'd him by the ring he wore.")

I worked with the units in an area made famous earlier by a book and a movie ( the Ia Drang valley, LZ X-Ray and LZ-Albany - in "We Were Soldiers, and Young") One afternoon, 21 days later stuff happened to earn me my CMB ,the medic's version of the CIB ( Combat Infantryman's Badge)
I carried my aid pack and the usual grunt stuff...plus things like blood expander, extra meds, more tourniquets, field dressings, bug juice, etc. and a bigdam can of peaches which I never did eat! I fired off a full clip just one time. I was dragging this giant black Sgt. towards the Huey when the little people opened up on us. He was missing most of one arm - or holed through both legs, I forget, he threw me his 16 at me, pointed and shouted something. Probably "shoot it!" So I did. Killed some banana trees. The crew on the medevac saw me do it - and kept quiet about it. I got to keep my C.O. status....

By this point in the war our weekly fatalities were around 32, down from 46 per week the year before. Not worrisome figures - but then consider that our Huey's flew 500,000 medical evacs during the war. So, a lot of wounded for every fatality.

I came home with 2 pair of bandage scissors and my busted Zippo. (hinge gave up - it leaked lighter fluid on your leg or chest - which burns like crap! once you figure out where it's coming from) I flew to Seattle, Was processed out of the Army.  By midnight I was in SeaTac airport with a ticket home and a few 100 $$, payment from all my unused leave.
I went into the airport rest room - stripped off my new uniform, incl. shoes, hat & top coat and stuffed it all in the trash can. Put on my Levi cords, and a T-shirt, desert boots and boarded the plane to Kansas City.
I thought I'd camouflaged the fact that I was returning from Vietnam - not a popular thing at the time. But a little old lady came and took the seat beside and said, "you're coming home from the war aren't you?" she touched my brown arm.
Once back in Mass at my old hospital job - I was glad when I finally lost my tan. It was giving me away. It was mid February.
My wife was 18, I was 19 when we married in Los Angeles, the Summer of Love.
Now I'd lost so much weight - she had to be careful not to hurt me....but we tried!
 First child was born a year later.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Once stabilized at the 71st in Pleiku - they were sent on to the big hospital on the coast at Quinhon.

The dreaded Ia Drang valley is SSW of Pleiku and deadly happneings at LZ Albany* - just S of Pleiku.
You might remember the newsman, Howard K Smith. His son survived the so poorly lead disaster near LZ Albany, which occurred just after the nearby We Were Soldiers fight; that one lead by a real leader of men.

*
https://www.lzxray.com/jack-smiths-first-person-account-of-lz-albany/

too many words!
Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

Following up on Neil's, MY LIFE post ....well, my daughter says I've likely worn out a couple of Guardian Angels along the way.

 I do not spend many days thinking about my time in the service. Veteran's Day is one when I do.

My back-story: in the 1960's I petitioned my draft board to have my draft status changed from 1-A (prime beef) to 1-AO (prime beef, less 7lbs of rifle. A conscientious objector, who agrees to serve in combat, weaponless). A 1-AO status forces the Army to make me a medic.  Amazingly -  the draft board agreed.
Soon I was off to Ft Sam Houston TX as a 'C.O.' for abbreviated basic training (6 weeks, no weapons,  - mostly with 7th Day Adventists) Then we joined 100's of regular, smarter, Americans and went through 10 wks of training to become combat medics. They could carry a weapon -
My test scores allowed me many extra weeks of training and OJT in the big Brooke Army Medical Center.
B.A.M.C. was the burn center for all branches of the service. (one assignment was to unload airplanes filled with casualties at a local AF base - we stacked them on busses and delivered them to the correct wards at BAMC --- a real wake-up call, if I needed one)

By the middle of this war we were going over alone,  I was on a 707 filled with like strangers. I was assigned to replace a medic going home after 18 mos in the central highlands. He mentored me for 15 days, handed me some medical books sent from the States.....and told me not to volunteer for "any d__n thing!" ("buddy volunteered for door gunner - Huey went down,  We only ID'd him by the ring he wore.")

I worked with the units in an area made famous earlier by a book and a movie ( the Ia Drang valley, LZ X-Ray and LZ-Albany - in "We Were Soldiers, and Young") One afternoon, 21 days later stuff happened to earn me my CMB ,the medic's version of the CIB ( Combat Infantryman's Badge)
I carried my aid pack and the usual grunt stuff...plus things like blood expander, extra meds, more tourniquets, field dressings, bug juice, etc. and a bigdam can of peaches which I never did eat! I fired off a full clip just one time. I was dragging this giant black Sgt. towards the Huey when the little people opened up on us. He was missing most of one arm - or holed through both legs, I forget, he threw me his 16 at me, pointed and shouted something. Probably "shoot it!" So I did. Killed some banana trees. The crew on the medevac saw me do it - and kept quiet about it. I got to keep my C.O. status....

By this point in the war our weekly fatalities were around 32, down from 46 per week the year before. Not worrisome figures - but then consider that our Huey's flew 500,000 medical evacs during the war. So, a lot of wounded for every fatality.

I came home with 2 pair of bandage scissors and my busted Zippo. (hinge gave up - it leaked lighter fluid on your leg or chest - which burns like crap! once you figure out where it's coming from) I flew to Seattle, Was processed out of the Army.  By midnight I was in SeaTac airport with a ticket home and a few 100 $$, payment from all my unused leave.
I went into the airport rest room - stripped off my new uniform, incl. shoes, hat & top coat and stuffed it all in the trash can. Put on my Levi cords, and a T-shirt, desert boots and boarded the plane to Kansas City.
I thought I'd camouflaged the fact that I was returning from Vietnam - not a popular thing at the time. But a little old lady came and took the seat beside and said, "you're coming home from the war aren't you?" she touched my brown arm.
Once back in Mass at my old hospital job - I was glad when I finally lost my tan. It was giving me away. It was mid February.
My wife was 18, I was 19 when we married in Los Angeles, the Summer of Love.
Now I'd lost so much weight - she had to be careful not to hurt me....but we tried!
 First child was born a year later.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Once stabilized at the 71st in Pleiku - they were sent on to the big hospital on the coast at Quinhon.

The dreaded Ia Drang valley is SSW of Pleiku and deadly happneings at LZ Albany* - just S of Pleiku.
You might remember the newsman, Howard K Smith. His son survived the so poorly lead disaster near LZ Albany, which occurred just after the nearby We Were Soldiers fight; that one lead by a real leader of men.

*
https://www.lzxray.com/jack-smiths-first-person-account-of-lz-albany/

too many words!
Stig

You have not posted this before, maybe to my faulty recollection. I rejoice you returned with all fingers and toes still joined to the proper other, in-between pieces. Your counterpart in the US Navy is the "Fleet Marine," a term for Hospital Corpsman (Navy rating) doing combat duty with the USMC usually at company level.

I always admired the medics/corpsmen attached to combat units especially C.O.'s. Takes a special dedication and determination to willingly face a gunfight unarmed and put one's self in harm's way to save an injured soldier or sailor.

My service in that stinking mess was not nearly as "challenging" as yours or anyone else in country. I even escaped Agent Orange exposure while on two different ships that were both severely contaminated with the stuff. Several crew have either died from that stuff or are currently being treated. The Creator must have purposes for both of us....

[Iahawk]

thank you to both of you, Tom and Karl. Good men, both. Glad you made it home in one piece!

[Stig / Major Tom]

You have not posted this before, maybe to my faulty recollection. I rejoice you returned with all fingers and toes still joined to the proper other, in-between pieces. Your counterpart in the US Navy is the "Fleet Marine," a term for Hospital Corpsman (Navy rating) doing combat duty with the USMC usually at company level.

I always admired the medics/corpsmen attached to combat units especially C.O.'s. Takes a special dedication and determination to willingly face a gunfight unarmed and put one's self in harm's way to save an injured soldier or sailor.

My service in that stinking mess was not nearly as "challenging" as yours or anyone else in country. I even escaped Agent Orange exposure while on two different ships that were both severely contaminated with the stuff. Several crew have either died from that stuff or are currently being treated. The Creator must have purposes for both of us....

Thanks Karl and Hawk,
Best job I ever had! Best bunch of people to work with!

{Maybe Karl would agree: those of our contemporaries who, for whatever reason, missed out on Vietnam also missed the most significant experience of our generation.}

Not much Agent Orange used in my area of operations...I don't believe. (although I was suspect that the reason for my firstborn's  blindness might somehow be related)
Funny story: I once worked with a miserable co-worker who told me that during the Vietnam war his father told him to enlist in the Navy - "and make sure they promise to train you as a medic. Being a medic in the Navy would be super safe!"

Old Pop's didn't know that the Marine Corp get their field medics from the Navy!! The Navy recruiter forgot to mention that.
Fortunately - this guy fell in training and was given a medical discharge. He gets a few bucks a month now.

FYI - as well as the C.O., Desmond Doss who was awarded the Medal of Honor in WWII; two young C.O.'s received the same for their actions in Vietnam. Joseph LaPointe Jr.(from nearby Dayton, aged 20), and Tom Bennett (aged 21) were awarded the MOH posthumously.
Killed within 4 mos of each other, in 1969. Bennett was killed around Pleiku, my area.
Both went through classes at Ft. Sam Houston a few months before me.

A host of medics and corpsmen probably have been awarded the MOH over the decades - but I'm not aware of more than the 3 conscientious objectors mentioned above.

Silly to think of it, considering how rudimentary was our training (by the Army at least) -but most of us took pride in being called "Doc".....and (secretly) held that Florence Nightengale syndrome as "medical savior".
Our instructors at Ft Sam were all experienced combat medics - and they repeatedly mentioned to us that "if you don't pay attention in class, and get to Vietnam as a lousy medic...Well, there is one sure & quick way that your unit there can get you replaced." ....during the confusion of a fire fight.
I think they were only making a point. Maybe.

I went on to work in civilian hospitals for the next 15 yrs in OH and Mass. My fav place to work.

Stig

[randyo]

I was never in military, I was 2S and after graduation, had a high lottery number.  My dad was in the Navy for the end of WWII, on a fast attack amphibious transport. He was at the Battle of Okinawa, I only found out by researching his ship, the USS Neshoba. He never talked about his service

[CROSSBOLT]

I was never in military, I was 2S and after graduation, had a high lottery number.  My dad was in the Navy for the end of WWII, on a fast attack amphibious transport. He was at the Battle of Okinawa, I only found out by researching his ship, the USS Neshoba. He never talked about his service

My Dad was in the USMC at Guam and elsewhere and never talked, either. Your Dad was in some terribly thick stuff at Okinawa. Youtube is a good source. Navy and Marines were pounded severely there.

My opinion is Vietnam was good theater when missed....

[randyo]

My Dad was in the USMC at Guam and elsewhere and never talked, either. Your Dad was in some terribly thick stuff at Okinawa. Youtube is a good source. Navy and Marines were pounded severely there.

My opinion is Vietnam was good theater when missed....

My dad was Seaman 2nd class, I don't even know what he did. My grandmother once said he was always on KP peeling potatoes. According to wiki, they saw some kamikazes

When my dad died just a year and a half ago @age 95, The Navy sent a couple sailors to fold the flag and present it to my younger brother

[Stig / Major Tom]

I was never in military, I was 2S and after graduation, had a high lottery number.  My dad was in the Navy for the end of WWII, on a fast attack amphibious transport. He was at the Battle of Okinawa, I only found out by researching his ship, the USS Neshoba. He never talked about his service

Regarding "2-S" student deferments....
The night I went to the local draft board to present my petition to have my status changed from 1-A to 1-AO ---I was the last one in the waiting room
I had been preceded by about 3 doz. students from U. Mass. and Amherst college. They had flunked enough classes to lose their student deferments....and they were there to plead their cases. By the looks of them when they walked out - they were not successful.

Then I was called in....ready to be turned down since I'm neither a preacher's kid nor a 7th Day Adventist.
I simply said that I worked at a hospital - liked the work and I knew that I could be a very good medic.
They asked if I knew that conscientious objector medics all go to Vietnam?
I said, "yes sir"
He looked around the smoke filled room of .....well, there couldn't have been anyone in there under 50.....and asked if anyone had any objections to granting my request. No one did.....!

I always suspected that the fact that I was not asking to avoid the Army, after the parade of weepy college kids they'd just dealt with - worked in my favor.
I'm serious about the crying college kids, some had brought their lawyers, too, who weren't allowed into the chamber.
They were angry when they came out, crying, shouting, kicking chairs around, pounding walls, yelling into the payphone, etc.

I walked out of there feeling like I'd just won something big!

This was well before the lottery.
FYI: I read that 30% of the fatalities were draftees. The war being fought mainly by volunteers. If you could get into the Nat'l Guard - you were safe. Some famous politicians and entertainers went that route.

Yep - bless those college kids!

Stig

[randyo]

I went to Paul Smith's, a small college in the Adirondacks. They have expanded their academics, when I was there '70-'72, you were either a Forester or a Hotelie, the 2 primary programs were forestry, and hotel & restaurant management/culinary arts. I dare say that 30%, maybe more were Vets. and a sizeable contingent SE Asian students on the hotel management side of things
I knew this one guy from Thailand, was looking forward to running his father's whore house after graduation.

Out in the sticks, a hands on type college, there were no demonstrations really of any kind.

Over the years, I've always swapped Veterans Day for the day after Thanksgiving, before I retired

[Neil955i]

Gentlemen, as one who has never been called upon to serve his country, but counts many friends who have voluntarily done so, can I thank you for your service.  I do not envy you the experience, but I do regret not sharing the camaraderie of being with other "Brothers in Arms" as I know that often the friendships forged there last a lifetime.

We passed Remembrance Day (11/11) here by observing the national 2 minutes silence and watching the London Cenotaph parade on the TV as we were away from home.  We were glad that despite all the fears of disruption, it all seemed to go off quietly.  When at home, I like to go along to the small village memorial that we have and stand there with other folks to hear the vicar say a few words.  Nice if understated.

Attached is this year's pin.  Not sure if you guys in the States are familiar with this as a badge of Remembrance for the fallen*, I recall a Norwegian friend asking me all about it when he was over here one November.  Dates back to the first Great Unpleasantness when the battle churned fields of Flanders were a sea of poppies in the Spring of 1919, so many there could have been one for each of the dead...


* Further research suggest you will be if this is anything to go by:  The poem then inspired an American academic named Moina Michael to adopt the poppy in memory of those who had fallen in the war. She campaigned to get it adopted as an official symbol of Remembrance across the United States and worked with others who were trying to do the same in Canada, Australia, and the UK.

Also involved with those efforts was a French woman, Anna Guérin who was in the UK in 1921 where she planned to sell the poppies in London.

There she met Earl Haig, our founder, who was persuaded to adopt the poppy as our emblem in the UK. The Royal British Legion, which had been formed in 1921, ordered nine million poppies and sold them on 11 November that year.
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/about-remembrance/the-poppy?sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=57434&awc=6663_1699872143_b84965abd19938cd5f315b43f6da952e&sn=1&utm_source=Affiliate_Window&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=57434