Kymco People GT 300i ABS No-Spark Issue – Need Advice on Troubleshooting

[angeloK]

Hi everyone,

I recently bought a Kymco People GT 300i ABS with a no-spark problem. The previous owner took it to a shop where they ran some tests and attempted to check the pick-up resistance (I can tell because they exposed part of the wiring). They convinced the owner to buy a new CDI, but it didn’t solve the issue.

Base Info:

• The engine is turning, and the starter motor works without any issues.
• The fuel pump is functioning but is currently disconnected.
• The battery is dead, so I'm jump-starting it using a fully charged car battery (13V).

Here’s what I’ve done so far:

• Confirmed the side stand is in the correct position and the engine stop switch is set to “ON.”
• Replaced the spark plug – still no spark.
• Tested the ignition coil resistance:
• Primary: 4.4ohm (manual states 3.57ohm - 4.83ohm)
• Secondary: 15.4Kohm (manual states 10.42Kohm - 14.49Kohm) – slightly out of spec.
• Checked the pick-up CPS resistance: 117ohm (manual states 115ohm ± 15ohm).
• Verified continuity according to the wiring diagram (attached).
• Inspected the tilt sensor, and each wire has continuity according to the diagram – Is there a way to bypass this for testing?
• Checked the engine stop switch at the relay end – it seems to switch correctly.
• Confirmed continuity between the ignition coil and ignition relay (both wires).
• Cleaned and checked ground connections on the chassis.
• Tested the stator phases – no shorts.
• Confirmed continuity from the stator to the rectifier and to the ignition switch.
• Tested the rectifier following a guide on YouTube – it seems okay.

Next steps:

• Measure voltage at the tilt sensor when the key is ON.
• Open the carter to inspect the stator.

Questions:

• What could be causing the no-spark issue?
• Which components could be bypassed to simplify the circuit and isolate the problem?

Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks in advance for your help! 

[Ruffus]

@angeloK, welcome here!
Very thorough search already.

Sounds trivial but you didn't mention sparkplug cable?
Fuses all new?

I would:
-make a direct (temporary) cable between battery minus and engine (jump cable wth frogs)
-unplug, spray and plug this big connector between CDI and wiring harness
-take tilt switch off, bridge the cables
-unplug side stand switch and bridge
-ignition coil new?
-ignition coil cables (green and black?) in working order and connectors not worn?
-kill switch: open and bridge this white and green cable?
-jumpstart with a car "IDLING" to get more than 13.0 V on your scoots electronic
And always only ONE measure at a time!
See a dealer who has a DiagTool to borrow.

[angeloK]

@angeloK, welcome here!
Very thorough search already.

Sounds trivial but you didn't mention sparkplug cable?
Fuses all new?

I would:
-make a direct (temporary) cable between battery minus and engine (jump cable wth frogs)
-unplug, spray and plug this big connector between CDI and wiring harness
-take tilt switch off, bridge the cables
-unplug side stand switch and bridge
-ignition coil new?
-ignition coil cables (green and black?) in working order and connectors not worn?
-kill switch: open and bridge this white and green cable?
-jumpstart with a car "IDLING" to get more than 13.0 V on your scoots electronic
And always only ONE measure at a time!
See a dealer who has a DiagTool to borrow.

Thanks for the welcome 

• Fuses not new, but just checked, sanded and cleaned with contact cleaner and tested continuity: they all seems OK
• Ignition coil and spark cable not changed, since I assumed the former owner and the shop would have tried this first already
• didn't make the direct connection, just seen you edited the message 
• cleaned the CDI connector with contact cleaner and re-tested all continuity: OK
• bridged tilt switch, side stand switch and stop engine (kill) switch

After all these measurement and bridges and so, I tried to read voltage coming to the ignition coil while cranking: NONE. 0V DC

So I checked the pick-up - as said, impedance is 117ohm - and read 0.7VAC, without oscillation between 0V and 0.7V. Is this ok?

If not, any way to emulate the pickup signal for the ECU?

Thank you for your thoughts! It helps a lot.

[Ruffus]

Scratching head...
Since there is a new CDI, thats OK
I would take the syayor cover off and check the pickup cables.

For ignition coil I have my doubts, would renew the piece in one until sparkplug.

There where the pickup cables leave the engine, they brake sometimes in this rubber grommet...

Look at the wire harness once again and in this big
connector before CDI, check pins in there one by one..

[angeloK]

Scratching head...
Since there is a new CDI, thats OK
I would take the syayor cover off and check the pickup cables.

For ignition coil I have my doubts, would renew the piece in one until sparkplug.

There where the pickup cables leave the engine, they brake sometimes in this rubber grommet...

Look at the wire harness once again and in this big
connector before CDI, check pins in there one by one..

Thank you for your time, and your patience.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough before, the did TRY a new CDI, right now I'm stuck with the old one. I don't have a new one to try.

For ignition coil I have doubts too, but since it receives 0V from the CDI when engine is cranking, I put that out of the equation.

I'll check the pins of the CDI connector again, at the same time I'm trying to emulate the pick-up signal with an Arduino, let's see what's going to explode! 

Update: no news.
Tested the CDI connector, each wire has continuity as it should. Still no voltage at the ignition coil.
Tested voltage coming from the pick-up, but I read very low values (both AC and DC). I can't say if the multi-meter I'm using is able or not to read voltage at that frequency or if the pick-up doesn't send any signal.

I think it's time to open the pocket and purchase a stator + pickup 

[angeloK]

Hello again! Sadly, no good news 

I really don't want to give up on this!

I have a few more question to anyone of you has ever done this kind of tests before:

• Is the stator a possible culpript? As I understand from the manual and the scheme, it should not because the CDI is powered from the battery. But...
• Is there a way to measure the pick-up signal with a multimeter? I did buy a new one, tried but it changed nothing. It came to my mind that this one could be bad too, who knows.

I read the impedance of the pick-up and, as said in past posts, it's ok. I also put the multimeter to test continuity and it beeps when the flywheel rotates, so I assume the pickup sends something, but it is enough? It is the right signal?

I also checked all relays, tilt switch.

I can see I have power on the CDI, I have power at the ignition coil too (of which I tested the impedance and is ok).

How do I test if the ignition coil receives the signal from the CDI? I read something near 0.01xV as soon as I release the starting button and stop cranking. During cranking is 0V.

Any thoughts at all would make a difference here, avoiding driving myself crazy 

[Ruffus]

Hello again! Sadly, no good news 

I really don't want to give up on this!

I have a few more question to anyone of you has ever done this kind of tests before:

• Is the stator a possible culpript? As I understand from the manual and the scheme, it should not because the CDI is powered from the battery. But...
• Is there a way to measure the pick-up signal with a multimeter? I did buy a new one, tried but it changed nothing. It came to my mind that this one could be bad too, who knows.

I read the impedance of the pick-up and, as said in past posts, it's ok. I also put the multimeter to test continuity and it beeps when the flywheel rotates, so I assume the pickup sends something, but it is enough? It is the right signal?

I also checked all relays, tilt switch.

I can see I have power on the CDI, I have power at the ignition coil too (of which I tested the impedance and is ok).

How do I test if the ignition coil receives the signal from the CDI? I read something near 0.01xV as soon as I release the starting button and stop cranking. During cranking is 0V.

Any thoughts at all would make a difference here, avoiding driving myself crazy 

The simple stator test is to slide a screwdriver along its magnets, each should be the same adhesion. Broken treads are nearly not to be seen.
Is it the correct pickup?
-reaches deep enough into?

Ignition coil test: put a weak (LED) 12V lamp on this two leading cables (coil mounted)
-starter, LED showing flicker?
-renew all fuses!
-cableshoes under fuses?
-sparkplug cable new?

[angeloK]

The simple stator test is to slide a screwdriver along its magnets, each should be the same adhesion. Broken treads are nearly not to be seen.
Is it the correct pickup?
-reaches deep enough into?

Ignition coil test: put a weak (LED) 12V lamp on this two leading cables (coil mounted)
-starter, LED showing flicker?
-renew all fuses!
-cableshoes under fuses?
-sparkplug cable new?

Maybe it is not the correct pickup, because the resistance is slightly over spec, but it looks the same and its position is fixed, as the old one. Anyway I tested both with a led and they look like working, both of them.

Fuses have been cleaned and tested. Did not check the cableshoes under fuses but checked all the continuity and they are ok.

As per the ignition coil I put a led at the black and green/brown coming from CDI:
coil unplugged --> led ON (11,02V) with key in ON position.
coil plugged --> led OFF, even if cranking. It just blinks before switching key to OFF.

Black (from CDI to coil) with ground: 12.6V (battery voltage).

I'm going crazy here. I think I'll buy a new stator, pickup, CDI and ignition coil all new 

[Ruffus]

Sorry, don't know anymore remote.
Start with the less expensive to buy.
- coil with cable and plug (gutfeeling)

Or try to find a similar donor bike. Ok, chances are meager,...but
Or go somewhere to someone who lets you swap parts for testing, one by one.

[angeloK]

Sorry, don't know anymore remote.
Start with the less expensive to buy.
- coil with cable and plug (gutfeeling)

Or try to find a similar donor bike. Ok, chances are meager,...but
Or go somewhere to someone who lets you swap parts for testing, one by one.

Hi! I bought new coil with new plug, new stator with new pickup aaaaaaand no, no spark 

Next step will be separate the CDI connector from the CDI itself, using a breadboard and running a direct cable from CDI to ignition coil. Also I will try to emulate the right functioning of the tilt sensor with some batteries.
Any other thought appreciated.

Ruffus, I read you are based in Italy, me too! Where? Would love to buy you a coffee 

[Ruffus]

Would try that one (see pic) if serial# matches
Extracting certain functions from a ECU goes beyond my knowledge and possibilities. But its worth a try.
Vivo a Friuli presso Udine.

BUT: I still think its smtg with one of the switches!
Either kill, sidestand or tilt.
Take apart the RH switch assy once again and put a needle trough both the kill switch cables.
Same game with sidestand etc.

ECUs fail very seldom, I personally did not have a faulty one. Heard only. So., check everything else again.

[Neil955i]

ECUs fail very seldom, I personally did not have a faulty one. Heard only. So., check everything else again.

I'm one of those seldom then Ruffus!  Twenty-ish years ago my old Triumph Daytona 955i died on me as a result of the ECU failing on an Autostrada just outside La Spezia!  If memory serves it eventually got trailered to Numero Tre in Genoa, where a repair was completed in a few days and which Triumph UK eventually met the cost of despite the bike being 3 years old at that point!  They clearly thought an ECU should last longer than 3 years too.  First and only time I've ever had one fail.

[Ruffus]

No doubt, the possibility is out there. Like I wrote, didn't see a KEIHIN ECU giving in.
But LUCAS, prince of darkness, is everywhere😅🛠.

[angeloK]

Hello!
As Ruffus said, CDI are not likely to fail, in fact it is not the culprit!

I ordered a second hand CDI, contacted the seller he told me it was kept from a crashed scooter.
Even with the "new" CDI, I have no spark.

After all the test I did, I changed stator with pulser coil (new), coil (new), cable (new), spark cap (new) and spark plug (new), CDI.

I bypassed all switches (brakes, kill, side stand, roll sensor). I deleted codes on CDI but still no spark. Checked thousand times the continuity of each cable, and they are ok.

What I can see is that the ignition coil receives power but does not receive the trigger to spark!
How is this even possible?

P.S. Ruffus I gotta say that the coffee has to happen online, 'cause I live in the far south of Sicily 

[Ruffus]

Angelo, sorry to say there is no other way than to go trough all procedures as you would have a completely unknown vehicle.

Start with:  seat, undertray, tupperware off completely
-all switches
-all relays (out and clean and benchtest)
-all fuses (out, new)
-coil. cable, sparkplug
-all groundpoints, behind starter motor
-KILLSWITCH
-connectors within middle tunnel

Write down every little step, even cumbersome.
Like said, big parts mostly don't fail.