gas prices

[axy]

Axy...you mentioned the word parking in your post. This leads me to a question about scooter parking. I presume we have to use a full parking spot with meter feeding, am I correct? Is probably a dumb question but somewhere in a post I noted someone saying they acquired a parking ticket. I guess I want to be able to park without getting towed!!

We use here parking places that are paid for either by coin operated parking meter or using text message from your phone.

If you park your vehicle in a parking space that has to be paid for - it does not matter is it a scoot or car.

However, I have never seen a scoot parked in parking place that has to be paid for. They are usually parked just... anywhere.

And yes, sometimes the police, at least here, does the raids and they place parking tickets to scoots because people park them in the main town squares and in pedestrian-only zones. However, that is not that much of an issue, it is largely tolerated.

However, I have seen in Italy specialized tow-trucks for motorcycles that are parked where they should not be.

I have no idea what is the proliferation of scoots/bikes downtown in American cities and what is police tolerance of them.

Generally, here scoots are well tolerated if parked where they should not be, unless they obstruct passage or traffic, obviously.

My town is closest to Italy so the traffic pattern and street structure somewhat resembles Italian - we have some scoot-designated areas in the very center.

Take a look at http://novine.novilist.hr/images/clanci/2006/7/205013.jpg . It`s one of them.

[ts1]

I drive every 125cc scoot with <3 litre/100km in urban traffic. And every 250cc with <4 litre, even my wifes big fat MP3 LT 250.
To beat that in our congested short distance traffic, a car would have to be powered by plutonium. (Maybe with individual problems regarding this specific fuel.)
But the main reasons are that bikes are reliable (not stuck in traffic jam), fast and easy (parking).
Very cheap in insurance too, 25€/year (125cc) vs. 250€/year (small car) with a long clean record. Don't ask about car insurance premiums for beginners or careless wifes (man won't!? ) - these premiums may be more expensive than the car itself.

[axy]

I drive every 125cc scoot with <3 litre/100km in urban traffic. And every 250cc with <4 litre, even my wifes big fat MP3 LT 250.
To beat that in our congested short distance traffic, a car would have to be powered by plutonium. (Maybe with individual problems regarding this specific fuel.)
But the main reasons are that bikes are reliable (not stuck in traffic jam), fast and easy (parking).
Very cheap in insurance too, 25€/year (125cc) vs. 250€/year (small car) with a long clean record. Don't ask about car insurance premiums for beginners or careless wifes (man won't!? ) - these premiums may be more expensive than the car itself.

To get Total Cost of Ownership we would have to include many variables, some of them highly individual.
Agility on average consumes like 3-3.3, People 3.8 (summer) - 4.4 (winter).
Finally, as I said, you need both, sooner or later (children...)
It`s a scoot and a car, not one of them.

[Whisper]

Also, considering that we are on a scoot forum, I have to say that scoots are not incredibly gas saving. For example, average 250 cc scoot consumes 4-4,5 l of gasoline/100 km; average 500 cc will consume anywhere from 4.5-6 l/100 km. Even though I hate diesel cars, many (even mid-range) turbo diesel cars will consume 4.5-6 l/100 km of diesel fuel, even in urban cycle, that is also slightly cheaper. Maintenance of scoots is much more expensive than maintenance of cars as mileage rises (try to drive the same scoot for 100.000 kms and calculate all costs) and they have frequent service intervals.

On a personal note - I like everyone on this forum.  There is no BS with Axy, he says exactly what he means.  A fine quality.  Everyone has their own, unique facets that shine and add a lot here.

  As for the gas milage - That may be the way it is outside the US, but we get absolute crap for high efficiency cars here!  Europe gets a lot of outstanding diesels.  Oddly, diesel in the US used to be cheaper than normal gas.  Since high efficiency diesels have been produced, it is more now.  heck, Lexus has a HYBRID that gets 42 MPG!!!  A normal Toyota Corolla comes close to that!  I think we are getting screwed here. 

I cannot believe that in the early nineties we had a Geo Metro delivering 50+ miles per gallon - Granted, it was small and light.  But you cannot tell me we have not made advances in effiency in the internal combustion engine.  I do not know of any non-hybrids that get over 42mpg highway.  Grrrrrrrr.

So maybe in EU, a scoot isn't that much better in gas, but a 250cc scoot in the US will over double the milage of ANY car.  It is a significant savings for us here.  And they are 100000x more fun .

[axy]

On a personal note - I like everyone on this forum.  There is no BS with Axy, he says exactly what he means.  A fine quality.  Everyone has their own, unique facets that shine and add a lot here.

  As for the gas milage - That may be the way it is outside the US, but we get absolute crap for high efficiency cars here!  Europe gets a lot of outstanding diesels.  Oddly, diesel in the US used to be cheaper than normal gas.  Since high efficiency diesels have been produced, it is more now.  heck, Lexus has a HYBRID that gets 42 MPG!!!  A normal Toyota Corolla comes close to that!  I think we are getting screwed here. 

I cannot believe that in the early nineties we had a Geo Metro delivering 50+ miles per gallon - Granted, it was small and light.  But you cannot tell me we have not made advances in effiency in the internal combustion engine.  I do not know of any non-hybrids that get over 42mpg highway.  Grrrrrrrr.

So maybe in EU, a scoot isn't that much better in gas, but a 250cc scoot in the US will over double the milage of ANY car.  It is a significant savings for us here.  And they are 100000x more fun .

On the other hand, you in USA are very lucky because you have a good possibility of choice.

In the same car model, let's take for example, a medium sized hatchback or medium sized sedan - engines will start with naturally aspirated 1400 cc (110 hp), 1600 cc (125 hp), 1800 cc (140 hp), 2000 cc (160 hp)... then you can buy turbo diesels with roughly the same power...

In USA you will get for the start something like 1600 or 1800 / 140 hp, then V6, then bigger V6, then maybe V8 gasoline (for big cars and trucks/pickups/SUVs)...

Those V6 are not even available here and especially not V8. They are all replaced with turbo diesels (WHICH I HATE! ).

Trust me, our gasoline powered naturally aspirated cars are the same like yours and consume a lot of fuel. It is just that diesel substitution is much stronger here.

For example, in city cycle, average small hatchback 1.4-1.6/110 hp will need 10 l/100 km.
The same hatchback but turbo diesel will need maybe 6 l/100 kms.

For bigger displacements the difference is even bigger. If you have a SUV that consumes 20 l/100 km, it will need maybe 10-11 l of diesel/100 km.

There is really no way to compare scoots with cars, it is two complementing worlds...

[ts1]

I think we are getting screwed here.

I thought you used to have some automobile industry - or did the engineers went into military "defense" industry alltogether?

do not know of any non-hybrids that get over 42mpg highway.  Grrrrrrrr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight

[klaviator]

On the other hand, you in USA are very lucky because you have a good possibility of choice.

In the same car model, let's take for example, a medium sized hatchback or medium sized sedan - engines will start with naturally aspirated 1400 cc (110 hp), 1600 cc (125 hp), 1800 cc (140 hp), 2000 cc (160 hp)... then you can buy turbo diesels with roughly the same power...

In USA you will get for the start something like 1600 or 1800 / 140 hp, then V6, then bigger V6, then maybe V8 gasoline (for big cars and trucks/pickups/SUVs)...

Those V6 are not even available here and especially not V8. They are all replaced with turbo diesels (WHICH I HATE! ).............

Most small to midsize cars in the US are offered with only one or two engines.  If two engines, it will likely be a 4 cyl or 6 cyl.  When it comes to small cars, you have a much bigger selection than we do in the land of "bigger is better".  Of course we have a bigger selection of large cars, SUVs and trucks.  Most of the vehicles here are also not offered with a manual transmission.  Even if a vehicle is offered with a manual, it is quite likely the dealer won't have one in stock....but will have several with an automatic.  Most American drivers probably don't even know how to use a manual transmission.

On a positive note, with the increase of gas prices, small cars are becoming more popular.  Still, most are sold with an Auto tranny which does not perform as well in a small car, or get as many MPG.

[axy]

Most small to midsize cars in the US are offered with only one or two engines.  If two engines, it will likely be a 4 cyl or 6 cyl.  When it comes to small cars, you have a much bigger selection than we do in the land of "bigger is better".  Of course we have a bigger selection of large cars, SUVs and trucks.  Most of the vehicles here are also not offered with a manual transmission.  Even if a vehicle is offered with a manual, it is quite likely the dealer won't have one in stock....but will have several with an automatic.  Most American drivers probably don't even know how to use a manual transmission.

On a positive note, with the increase of gas prices, small cars are becoming more popular.  Still, most are sold with an Auto tranny which does not perform as well in a small car, or get as many MPG.

Yep, all those facts are well known... I would say it is best to be obnoxiously rich and drive big V8 car WITH manual transmission. Best of both worlds.
Or, even better, turbo charged V12 (AMG/Brabus, anybody?

[ts1]

Or, even better, turbo charged V12 (AMG/Brabus, anybody?

W16 (Bugatti Veyron Super Sport)!

[klaviator]

Yep, all those facts are well known... I would say it is best to be obnoxiously rich and drive big V8 car WITH manual transmission. Best of both worlds.
Or, even better, turbo charged V12 (AMG/Brabus, anybody?

If I won the lottery, I still wouldn't buy a big car.  Small cars are more fun to drive.  Especially small cars with lots of horsepower

[Whisper]

I thought you used to have some automobile industry - or did the engineers went into military "defense" industry alltogether?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight

  America may not make decent cars or motorcycles, but we do have a knack for making weaponry, I guess.

  The Honda Insight IS a Hybrid - NICE one too!  Not insanely expensive either.  We don't have any non-hybrids I know of getting better than 42mpg or so.  Even the tiny, tiny Smart Car.

[Syl]

Filled up our truck (Colorado X-cab) yesterday and the price..... 3.59.9. At times I go to Sam's and find the price to be normally 4-5 cent's less. The truck is going to sit quite often this summer if it ever get's here! Just a note to depress Pennsylvania rider's.....the pot holes are everywhere waiting to suck up a non-alerted biker. And the gravel, PA should come out with more raod signs....drive at your own risk....pot holes and gravel next million miles! I thought the gas price increase would help pay for all this up-keep.

[jprestonian]

I thought the gas price increase would help pay for all this up-keep.

Federal gasoline taxes are a flat rate per gallon, not a percentage; IIRC, somewhere in the 18 cents/gallon range. Been that way for a very long time, too.
.

[klaviator]

Federal gasoline taxes are a flat rate per gallon, not a percentage; IIRC, somewhere in the 18 cents/gallon range. Been that way for a very long time, too.
.

Thats true.  If gas prices go up and people start to conserve, the government will take in less taxes.

[ts1]

Probably you have VAT tax in addition to gas tax, so your government should be happy even when fuel prices go up.
In .de: 0.66€/litre gas tax (2.50€ = $3.53/gallon), final VAT 19%. Our tax is higher than your total price!