Author Topic: Hard starting in warm weather FIX  (Read 11621 times)

Whisper

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Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« on: April 12, 2011, 12:48:42 PM »
I know some people on the forum have noticed it takes quite a few cranks sometimes, to get the DT300i to start, after it has been sitting in the blazing hot sun (90+F here yesterday - It felt like the sun was 12 ft overhead!!!).

I'm fairly certain, the gasoline expansion due to the increase in temperature causes the excess to dump into the cylinder, slightly flooding it. 

I've tried MANY techniques to get it to fire up more easily in this situation, and I think I have nailed it.  The Anti-Flood setting seems to do the trick!  If it doesn't spring to life after 2-3 seconds of starting, this is what I do, and it seems to work very well!  Please tell me if it helps you out!

- Try starting.  If you get 2-3 seconds without joy, then
1.  Twist the throttle ALL THE WAY open, and hold it
2.  Press and hold the starter button (While holding the throttle all the way open) for 3 full seconds.
3.  Release the starter, then the throttle and wait 5 seconds.

On the next go, it should fire right up.


Goodrich

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 05:37:07 PM »
I'll give it a try, seems there's no rhyme or riddle as to why my DT has trouble starting sometimes.   :-\

Cortez

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 05:51:52 PM »
Common issue?  :(
'08 FZ6n S2 ABS

SOLD: 2003 Peugeot Speedfight2 LC, 2007 Kawasaki ER-6F ABS, 2006 Kymco Agility 125, '12 Kymco Downtown 300i ABS,

aidanpryde18

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 07:10:13 PM »
Have you taken it in to the shop where you bought it? It sounds like an issue that should be handled under warranty.

Agent Bob

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 11:30:56 PM »
That was the technique we used in the olden days to start a flooded carburated car engine. Put the pedal to the floor and crank it.

Goodrich

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 01:34:02 AM »
Have you taken it in to the shop where you bought it? It sounds like an issue that should be handled under warranty.

It doesn't happen often but it does happen....problem is it happens more when the engine is cold.  Until it becomes a major problem I won't go through the HASSLE of dropping the scoot off at the dealer and try to find someone on a workday to bring me home.  I just got the first oil change today so I'm breaking it in.   :)

Whisper

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 01:14:09 PM »
That was the technique we used in the olden days to start a flooded carburated car engine. Put the pedal to the floor and crank it.

Kind of, but the DT300i is a fly-by-wire job - The anti-flood mode is a legit service mode, apparently.


Quote from: Cortez
Common issue?  Sad 

Every bike has its quirks.  The Silverwing wallows when cornering hard, The Bergman 650 oscillates at high speed, etc.  Given that this quirk is that I have to hold the starter button for 3 seconds - I think I can deal with it ;D

Quote from: aidanpryde18
Have you taken it in to the shop where you bought it? It sounds like an issue that should be handled under warranty.

Unfortunately, no. I have yet to hear of a shop that even knows what to do with the DT300i.  Most reported here don't even bother with the service manual.  Secondly, the issue ONLY manifests itself under very certain conditions - ALL of which seem to need to be met:

* The engine must be allowed to cool and sit for at least 4-5 hours. 
* It must be cool outside when the engine is turned off.
* The unit MUST be in direct sunlight for the duration of the sitting, and the temp delta must be significant.

This issue NEVER happens:  In my garage, in the shade, when the engine is warm, on cloudy days, on warm mornings, on cold evenings, if it is HOT in the garage, if it is COLD in the garage, when parked for an hour or 2, when parked overnight, at night, in the morning, etc.

So having the dealer do the troubleshooting would be difficult/useless.  Once again, given that the solution is twisting the throttle and  holding the start button for 3 seconds, on the occasions when this occurs - I'm not bothered/worried at all.



Hoolander2

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 03:42:50 PM »
Yeah, I agree, Whisper.  Not an issue really.  Just a quirk.  And, yes, Agent Bob, I remember that old technique well.   ;D  It was and is a good trick. 

My 500's quirk is that when I park for, say, 10 to 20 minutes, it won't fire unless I crack the throttle -- then it fires right up.  I believe the auto-choke thinks it's cooled off but the motor knows it's warm.  :D  '07 carburated.

Whisper

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 02:14:38 PM »
I have no problems with quirks.  As long as they don't impact safety.

But my old Yamaha TT350 had CHARACTER.  That cold hearted she-devil required me to know EXACTLY what millimeter that choke needed to be at depending on the:

Ambient Temperature
Engine temperatire
Altitude
Time of day
Phase of moon
Neap/Spring Tide
Whether Venus was in retrograde

  It was truly an incredible rubric to successfully start that thing.  The good news is, it could NEVER be stolen and ridden off by the uninitiated - HA!



axy

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 05:26:31 PM »
I have no problems with quirks.  As long as they don't impact safety.

But my old Yamaha TT350 had CHARACTER.  That cold hearted she-devil required me to know EXACTLY what millimeter that choke needed to be at depending on the:

Ambient Temperature
Engine temperatire
Altitude
Time of day
Phase of moon
Neap/Spring Tide
Whether Venus was in retrograde

  It was truly an incredible rubric to successfully start that thing.  The good news is, it could NEVER be stolen and ridden off by the uninitiated - HA!


The same was with my Yamaha TW125.  ;D My first bike with gear shift lever.  8)



Look at these tires.  :D
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Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

TechGuy

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 05:34:06 PM »
I wonder if this is anything like the Vespa charcoal canister issue.  It has to do with with the EPA required canister getting flooded or other wise plugged from a fuel overfill, an expansion of gas into the tubing/canister or a tip that causes fuel to flow into the system.

Many Vespa owners have removed, vented, or disabled the evaporative canister.

Cortez

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 05:38:32 PM »
The same was with my Yamaha TW125.  ;D My first bike with gear shift lever.  8)



Look at these tires.  :D

I thought you had the 200cc version!
Wish they imported the 225cc here.. it's probably a fun bike..
'08 FZ6n S2 ABS

SOLD: 2003 Peugeot Speedfight2 LC, 2007 Kawasaki ER-6F ABS, 2006 Kymco Agility 125, '12 Kymco Downtown 300i ABS,

Whisper

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2011, 07:57:38 PM »
I wonder if this is anything like the Vespa charcoal canister issue.  It has to do with with the EPA required canister getting flooded or other wise plugged from a fuel overfill, an expansion of gas into the tubing/canister or a tip that causes fuel to flow into the system.

Many Vespa owners have removed, vented, or disabled the evaporative canister.

I can't imagine, the scoot being so new, that the Canister could be plugged.  Then again, I can't imagine a Narwhal is a real animal...

I DO know it gets clogged when you overfill - And I have been guilty of some EPIC overfillings!...

I'm going to figure out where that critter is, and experiment...

TechGuy

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2011, 12:14:52 AM »
When i say "plugged" I mean the canister fills with liquid gasoline.  IIRC, the canister is full of activated charcoal and it is there to prevent liquid gasoline from leaking onto the ground in case of overfills and fuel expansion in the sun. I think it control how much fuel vapors go into the atmosphere, too.

When the canister is full of liquid gasoline the carb/FI cannot breathe air in because when it draws in air from the canister...it gets a glug of gasoline and gas+gas (no air) equals "no-start" , air+gas = go!.  Overfilling your tank can fill your canister and cause stalling, hard starts, and no-starts.  So can laying the scooter over, either as gasoline into the canister or too much oil in the airfilter. It can take several days for the fuel in the canister to evaporate to a point when the canister allows the air to flow to the FI/carb

Amazing what I learn about reading these forums. See ModernVespa.com for more information. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-evap or http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-bv500-charcoal-cannister

axy

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Re: Hard starting in warm weather FIX
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2011, 07:52:05 AM »
I thought you had the 200cc version!
Wish they imported the 225cc here.. it's probably a fun bike..

200 cc was sold only in USA. I have never heard of 225.
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Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

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