A different kind of ride on my scooter.

[klaviator]

When I got my Super 8 I expected to use it to commute to work, go shopping, and generally have fun on it.  Yesterday I went on a ride different from any I have done in the past.  It was very sobering experience: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647784&page=10

[oldcoastie]

Excellent report, Klav... thank you for showing us what is going on...

[old mod]

Very sobering photo's. Glad you're ok Klaviator. Mother nature can be incredibly cruel, good to hear people are pulling together

[axy]

For us from Europe, it is interesting to see what some American cities look like after tornadoes.
For sure, we do not have them here, but have hurricane-like wind sometimes, especially in the area where I live.
I remember fall of 2004 when such a strong wind damaged some parts of the city (trees fell down, a lot of other objects were damaged on the outside), but it was cleared in a day or two.

We have mandatory insurance scheme imposed by the state for all buildings that have two or more co-owners (apartment blocks).
You can be uninsured only if you are a sole proprietor.

Just to let you know that I see that hurricane wind speed, depending on the category, is between 1-5, and 110-200 km/h.
I am checking the statistics, we have here regularly 150 km/h, including area where I live, and Wikipedia is quoting 180 km/h, 200 km/h, 248 km/h and even 320 km/h when the gauge broke (and it was not even meant to measure that high!). I think that 320 km/h exceeds most hurricanes.

We do not call these things hurricanes here, we call them "wind".   Very often I even ride at that wind (even though that is not too smart, especially at highway speed).
Usually, there is no damage, here and there some branches fall off the trees, traffic signs and large panels might be torn out or here and there a piece of roof tiling might fall off, but that is all. Sometimes highways and bridges are closed down because wind is so strong it can blow off the road trucks, buses and motorcycles. It also does not have constant speed but it changes speed very quickly, sometimes from 0-150 km/h several times in a single minute!



In fact, I wanted to say that it is interesting for us to see on TV that many homes in USA seem to be made of things like some sort of thick pressed cardboard, plywood and puzzle-like panels that seem to be blown away after the winds gets strong. Also it seems that many homes do not have solid foundations, but there is a thing called crawl space, I think, underneath. Such things are not heard of here. Traditional building material here were stone blocks, at least until beginning of the 20th century. So, for example, this would be such an old house made of stone: http://www.beatum.hr/slike/kuce/kamena-kuca1-2.jpg

Stone does not provide a good insulation, clay made bricks do, so after WW II everybody switched to baked red clay bricks, over which insulation made of styrofoam is being placed along with anti-moisture thermal facade. Here is one example of such a building during construction: http://www.nekretnine365.com/nekretnine-bosna/images/listing_photos/2105_157_brackokod20servisa20mise20panica202.jpg . At every corner and strategically inside support walls, special anti-earthquake bricks are used in a zig-zag fashion to redistribute forces. For example, I live in one such traditional house made in 2004.

Finally, we have some houses that are similar to those throughout USA. I do not know the exact term for them, but they are made of pre-made blocks that are transported and assembled on site, they can be quickly built, they are light, well insulated, earthquake resistant, but they also have solid foundations, usually made of reinforced concrete. They are also a bit cheaper than traditional ones.

It is always interesting for us to see that some family houses in USA are made of so cheap and unreliable materials, especially in areas where tornadoes and hurricanes are not an exception, but norm. Why is that so? I could understand that if their price was several times lower than the price of similar but "solid made" house. Is that the case?

[klaviator]

Houses here are made of many different materials.  Cost is the main factor.  Most houses are made of a wood frame and then covered with insulation and then some kind of siding.  A more expensive option is brick and many houses are partially or completely covered with brick.  Brick houses are much more resistant to high winds but I don't think they are so great for earthquakes.  I don't recall seeing many brick houses in Southern California which has earthquakes.  Many Americans also live in mobil homes which are easily destroyed by high winds and seem to be a magnet for tornadoes.  Mobil homes are there because they are very inexpensive. Another issue when it comes to hurricane safety is having a basement.  In some parts of the country basements are common while in others, such as Alabama, the soil is such that having a basement usuelly results in an indoor swimming pool.  In Alabama homes are usuelly built with just a crawl space underneath for access to plumbing or sometimes just on a concrete slab.

America is a huge country so the types of housing, the landscapes, and the weather hazards vary greatly from one part of the country to another.  The only other major disaster that I personally witnessed was a massive ice storm that took out electricity throughout most of the state of Maine and parts of other states and Canada.  Someone described it as a hurricane in slow motion.  As ice built up, trees and powerlines just started to snap.  The resulting destruction looked much like a hurricane had come through except that it didn't destroy any houses.

As for wind speeds, some of the tornadoes we have are so strong that they will destroy almost any normal structure in their path, however their path is much smaller than a Hurricane.  Another major disaster that has affected us is flooding. 

Every country has different hazards.  I used to spend a lot of time in Sicily and remember seeing the results of the lava flows on Mt Etna.  Japan has had major earthquakes and Tsunami's.  There is no realistic way to completely prepare for many of the natural disasters that occur. 

You also mentioned insurance.  There is no mandatory property insurance here.  Only liability insurance for vehicles is mandatory and many people still don't have that.  Many of the people hit by these tornadoes did not have insurance or at least did not have enough insurance to cover everything.  Still, most people probably did have some insurance.

[axy]

Houses here are made of many different materials.  Cost is the main factor.  Most houses are made of a wood frame and then covered with insulation and then some kind of siding.  A more expensive option is brick and many houses are partially or completely covered with brick.  Brick houses are much more resistant to high winds but I don't think they are so great for earthquakes.  I don't recall seeing many brick houses in Southern California which has earthquakes.  Many Americans also live in mobil homes which are easily destroyed by high winds and seem to be a magnet for tornadoes.  Mobil homes are there because they are very inexpensive. Another issue when it comes to hurricane safety is having a basement.  In some parts of the country basements are common while in others, such as Alabama, the soil is such that having a basement usuelly results in an indoor swimming pool.  In Alabama homes are usuelly built with just a crawl space underneath for access to plumbing or sometimes just on a concrete slab.

America is a huge country so the types of housing, the landscapes, and the weather hazards vary greatly from one part of the country to another.  The only other major disaster that I personally witnessed was a massive ice storm that took out electricity throughout most of the state of Maine and parts of other states and Canada.  Someone described it as a hurricane in slow motion.  As ice built up, trees and powerlines just started to snap.  The resulting destruction looked much like a hurricane had come through except that it didn't destroy any houses.

As for wind speeds, some of the tornadoes we have are so strong that they will destroy almost any normal structure in their path, however their path is much smaller than a Hurricane.  Another major disaster that has affected us is flooding. 

Every country has different hazards.  I used to spend a lot of time in Sicily and remember seeing the results of the lava flows on Mt Etna.  Japan has had major earthquakes and Tsunami's.  There is no realistic way to completely prepare for many of the natural disasters that occur. 

You also mentioned insurance.  There is no mandatory property insurance here.  Only liability insurance for vehicles is mandatory and many people still don't have that.  Many of the people hit by these tornadoes did not have insurance or at least did not have enough insurance to cover everything.  Still, most people probably did have some insurance.

Yes, I do know about this wooden frame thing, we do not have such things over here... I saw many documentaries where people lay frames on the ground and then rise them to make frame for the rest of the panels.

Also, no mobile homes either... people have the trailers or mobile home-vehicles just to tow them for touristic purposes. However, we almost do not have the problem of homeless people either. Until 10-15 years it was almost unheard of.

Brick houses are good for earthquakes if they have adequate anti-earthquake bricks as I described, where lateral forces are dissipated so the structure can absorb the movements of the ground.

Insurance: it is mandatory only if there is more than one appartment in the building, otherwise it is not. I saw recently a  documentary about areas around New Orleans being deserted, among other reasons, because no insurance company wants to provide insurance services and therefore nobody wants to build/rebuild/live there.

However, I still find it interesting that there is so widespread building practice using  "non solid" materials in areas that are heavily hit by hurricanes and tornadoes.

Basements and underground water: this is easily fixed. I also live in the area that is very "wet" and most older houses have a basement, nowadays it costs a lot of money to build them so they are not built anymore. It is just a question of proper drainage and insulation, however, to build a square meter of basement costs almost the same as to build a square meter of regular living space! So, people usually opt to make one floor more instead and then sell it or leave for the children...

[klaviator]

Yes, I do know about this wooden frame thing, we do not have such things over here... I saw many documentaries where people lay frames on the ground and then rise them to make frame for the rest of the panels.

Also, no mobile homes either... people have the trailers or mobile home-vehicles just to tow them for touristic purposes. However, we almost do not have the problem of homeless people either. Until 10-15 years it was almost unheard of.

Brick houses are good for earthquakes if they have adequate anti-earthquake bricks as I described, where lateral forces are dissipated so the structure can absorb the movements of the ground.

Insurance: it is mandatory only if there is more than one appartment in the building, otherwise it is not. I saw recently a  documentary about areas around New Orleans being deserted, among other reasons, because no insurance company wants to provide insurance services and therefore nobody wants to build/rebuild/live there.

However, I still find it interesting that there is so widespread building practice using  "non solid" materials in areas that are heavily hit by hurricanes and tornadoes.
Basements and underground water: this is easily fixed. I also live in the area that is very "wet" and most older houses have a basement, nowadays it costs a lot of money to build them so they are not built anymore. It is just a question of proper drainage and insulation, however, to build a square meter of basement costs almost the same as to build a square meter of regular living space! So, people usually opt to make one floor more instead and then sell it or leave for the children...

It a matter of cost.  Most people want the "most" house or largest space for the money.  In other words "quantity over quality"  It is hard to justify spending a lot of money to prepare fro something that may never happen.  After all, most houses do not get damaged by tornadoes. 

As for New Orleans.  I lived there for a year back in the 80s.  When I got there I was told it was only a matter of time before the city was destroyed by a hurricane.  Everyone knew it yet they all acted surprised when it happened.  Most of the city was built below sea level, the countries largest river flows through it and it's in a Hurricane prone area.  Also, much of the city was really bad slums with some of the homes probably worth less than a nice scooter.  Anything rebuilt in those areas will be an improvement.  In some places, the threat from hurricanes/flooding is so bad that insurance companies will not cover anything there or will charge extremely high premiums.  I some places, especially on the beaches, they seem to build the houses as cheaply as possible because it is only a matter of time before they are destroyed again.

Mobile homes are not the same as the trailers used as recreational vehicles.  Some mobile homes are quite large and are generally only moved once after being purchased.  Their advantage is that they are all that some people can afford. 

I think that another factor that determines building materials is what is available.  Wood is much more available and therefore less expensive than it is in Europe.  Many of the houses built in this country are put up as fast as possible with very poor construction.  Those who want sturdy, well constructed houses can get them, provided they are willing to pay the price.

[Agent Bob]

When I was stationed in Spain while in the military, all construction was of stone and concrete. One had to only look at the surrounding countryside to see why...no trees.  When I went to Germany, the barracks were wood and their surrounding countryside was wooded. I think that pretty much explains it. Eskimos made igloos, and on and on.

[axy]

When I was stationed in Spain while in the military, all construction was of stone and concrete. One had to only look at the surrounding countryside to see why...no trees.  When I went to Germany, the barracks were wood and their surrounding countryside was wooded. I think that pretty much explains it. Eskimos made igloos, and on and on.

I think you are wrong, even though it seems on the surface you are right.
Don't be offended.
I will explain why,.

In 19th century, certainly it was cheaper to produce things and build using raw materials from your surroundings.
With globalization, it is not so anymore. It may be much cheaper to use materials from other side of the planet, just as it is cheaper to use things produced in China than to make them locally, as you probably know.

For example, my country is a big exporter of wood and timber as materials for production of furniture and building materials However, wooden houses in urban areas are unheard of.

Eskimos do not have possibility to use anything else. ))
Anyway, nowadays I think that igloos are more folklore, I would not say they live in them...

[axy]

It a matter of cost.  Most people want the "most" house or largest space for the money.  In other words "quantity over quality"  It is hard to justify spending a lot of money to prepare fro something that may never happen.  After all, most houses do not get damaged by tornadoes.  

As for New Orleans.  I lived there for a year back in the 80s.  When I got there I was told it was only a matter of time before the city was destroyed by a hurricane.  Everyone knew it yet they all acted surprised when it happened.  Most of the city was built below sea level, the countries largest river flows through it and it's in a Hurricane prone area.  Also, much of the city was really bad slums with some of the homes probably worth less than a nice scooter.  Anything rebuilt in those areas will be an improvement.  In some places, the threat from hurricanes/flooding is so bad that insurance companies will not cover anything there or will charge extremely high premiums.  I some places, especially on the beaches, they seem to build the houses as cheaply as possible because it is only a matter of time before they are destroyed again.

Mobile homes are not the same as the trailers used as recreational vehicles.  Some mobile homes are quite large and are generally only moved once after being purchased.  Their advantage is that they are all that some people can afford.  

I think that another factor that determines building materials is what is available.  Wood is much more available and therefore less expensive than it is in Europe.  Many of the houses built in this country are put up as fast as possible with very poor construction.  Those who want sturdy, well constructed houses can get them, provided they are willing to pay the price.

One thing is quite interesting: every type of house here costs pretty much the same, regardless of the material. It is a paradox that a house built from wood and such materials would probably cost more here because wood is quite expensive! )

So, if you make house of building blocks, bricks or wood, it costs the same.

The profit is retained by those manufacturing the materials and assembling the house.

That is very sweet situation for such companies, because the market is so small, there is no free competition to drive down the prices.

The main determining factor of real estate price here (except location) is price of the building ground/area (roughly 30 % of total house price here!!!) and desired level of internal trim/furnishing.

Type of the house is almost irrelevant.

That would mean that "cheap" wood/plywood/cardboard houses from some parts of USA would cost the same as solid brick mansions in my country.

Strange world we live in, eh? )

[klaviator]

I believe that in general, houses are more affordable in America than most other developed countries ( for the same size house)although prices here vary greatly not only by type of construction but also by location.  A house someplace expensive like Southern California may cost 2 to 10 times as much as an equivalent house in Alabama or Kansas.  Even in southern California house prices vary greatly by location.  There are many other expensive locations other than Southern California. In places like Alabama or Georgia you can buy a new 4 bedroom, 2 & 1/2 bath, 2 car garage house for well under $200,000 if you pick the right location.  Location probably determines price more than type of construction.

[axy]

I believe that in general, houses are more affordable in America than most other developed countries ( for the same size house)although prices here vary greatly not only by type of construction but also by location.  A house someplace expensive like Southern California may cost 2 to 10 times as much as an equivalent house in Alabama or Kansas.  Even in southern California house prices vary greatly by location.  There are many other expensive locations other than Southern California. In places like Alabama or Georgia you can buy a new 4 bedroom, 2 & 1/2 bath, 2 car garage house for well under $200,000 if you pick the right location.  Location probably determines price more than type of construction.

Just for comparison, in my country, for 200.000 US$ you can get 100 m2 apartment in suburbs of bigger cities, our buy 1000 m2 of land with building rights.
This apartment and its surrounding are nothing special. It could be compared to US "projects", just without social and racial conotations.

100 m2 = 1076 square feet
1000 m2 = 10764 square feet

The house you described would cost here at least 340.000 US$.

10 kms from my house, there is a quite famous resort for retired people from Austria, Italy and Germany where small flats, let's say 50-70 m2, used to be sold for 600-700.000 US$ until recently.