Changed over to Synthetic Downtown 300i

[TANWare]

As the topic states; I have changed over to all synthetic oil in both the engine and in the final drive. Personally I chose to use Royal Purple. Since picking the bike up I've only got to put on 20 miles but tried to get impressions as much as possible for people here.

1.) I used to be able to give slight throttle for just under 2,000 RPM so it would not engage the clutch. Any touch of the throttle brings me well over 2,000 RPM and the clutch starts to pull.
2.) The engine ramps to revs much quicker than before at any throttle position.
3.) Low speed driving requires less throttle than before. At 25 MPH you find yourself between idle and just twisting the grip.
4.) 25% throttle has a quicker launch and stronger pull.
5.) 50% throttle may be slightly more but it hard to tell as it was pretty strong before and I only tried it once. (I just had to show up the laughing teens in the cage next to me)
6.) 0-50 feels quicker and roll on power has slightly increased.
7.) Engine breaking from 50 is not as pronounced.
8.) While easy before to walk backwards from the seat it now seems effortless.
9.) Idle shake in the mirror is down.

I have found in general it needs less throttle to get where you are going. On the highway I used to use about 15% throttle to get 5,000 RPMs and accelerate from 0 to 50MPH, Same throttle puts me about 5,200 or so, acceleration wise I get from 0 to 50 faster now. Cruising is about the same way, I find myself slightly less into the throttle.

[axy]

If I say that all of this things have nothing to do with synthetic oil, I risk being labeled as nitpicker, because this is the second thing today I do not agree about with you.

[old geezer]

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001398592.cfm?x=bfmW6PM,b1M25KBSe

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2248265#Post2248265

[TANWare]

no please nit pick, if these instanious changes were due to something else I need to know. I would hae to be missinforming and that is what the forum is for, discussion of the subject so we all can better understand. I am new to these types of tweaks and haven't had a new bike in 35 years, so again please................

The throttle responce and free reving seem to be the biggest change. any slight gas before brought it to 1,900 to 2000 RPM right before it would want to engage the clutch, now it goes to a minimum of 2,2000 RPM and starts pulling. Idle is still 1,600 to 1,700  and before I had the pronounced thumper vibration on the mirrors. While still a vibration there it is no where near as pronounced. This including the fact you can feel it but that could be subjective so I don't rely on feel alone.

I pay very close attention to the throttle and RPM. I have mine set to the 1/8" play at the grip. I had become very adept to the amount of twist for the 5,000 RPM mark for acceleration as that is where I get just the right amount of pull for the local highway. Now it sets itself to 5,200 or so and the pull of course is slghtly stronger. I am not saying anything here is an earth shattering difference but it is there.

Now engine compression deceleration has erducedd slightly. I used to at 50 MPH purposely slow down for a light not using the brakes where possible. at the same sections of the highway I had to let go of the throttle earlier before the light. first one I let go normal and was too fast when I got there next seven, three one way then those four on the way home is where I had to let go early.

as far as the roll while idle or off you can tell it is easier. The only way I can put it is like the feeling between being on bushings and ball bearings. Or better yet an older motorcycle with and without the chain.

Even the Dealer commented that this rides entirely different than a People 250 he has. Where the people did the CVT hunt when hitting the throttle this one is right there. He had mentioned today it felt just like being on a motorcyle as throttle responce is right there.

Now I'll agree I have only a short time to get impressions so I have to reserve them a bit, but for now I am impressed. I doubt it has added anything major, my best guess is maybe 0.5 to 1.0 HP at the reat wheels, what I didn't expect is it seems to have done so at the full power range. so if it is only 0.5 HP where I was say using throttle for 5.0 HP before now I am seeing 5.5 HP and 10% increase at those low throttle settings is quite a difference. Now again my guess is 0.5 or so as at 50% I am guessing I was asking for 10-15 HP at the wheel, the difference between 10.5 to 15.5 is not as big so the difference doesn't readily show.

Again above is purely specualtive and a best guess. We call these SWAG's here, Scientific Wild Arse Guess's.................

[TANWare]

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001398592.cfm?x=bfmW6PM,b1M25KBSe

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2248265#Post2248265

And I agree, I am not satified it is just because of the name "Royal Purple" This is why I need to reasearch that out a bit further. I do fully believe it is going to synthetic rather than "Dino" oils. Again I chose RP while it may not be the best it is among the best. I erpeat any good synthetic will yeild these or similar results just be sure to synthetic both the engine and final drive.

I agree too you can not use subjective impressions to advertise HP increases or otherwise, it isn't nor is this post scientific proof........

[old geezer]

You could spend a good while here. There are some knowledgeable people on this forum.
 They do mave a motorcycle section.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

[Syl]

I had placed an earlier post on my going to synthetic at 400 miles in my DT 300i. I won't say anything here other than what I had put in. I am using Suziki, 4-cycle synthetic racing motorcycle oil, (SP-4E), SAE 10W-40. Look it up and read the spec's on it. I note some difference but being a layman on scooters, I don't want a debate on it. Most I can say is this was serviced at a major shop and I am of course hoping for the best.

[TANWare]

I had placed an earlier post on my going to synthetic at 400 miles in my DT 300i. I won't say anything here other than what I had put in. I am using Suziki, 4-cycle synthetic racing motorcycle oil, (SP-4E), SAE 10W-40. Look it up and read the spec's on it. I note some difference but being a layman on scooters, I don't want a debate on it. Most I can say is this was serviced at a major shop and I am of course hoping for the best.

Did you change the final drive too synthetic sa well? That is the main reaon I started another thread as to be honest I am not sure which changes are related to which change just figured I'd do a combined post.

[Syl]

No, but eventually I will.

[old geezer]

Conventional oil has narrowed the gap. There is not nearly as much difference between synthetic and conventional as there once was.

Synthetic will flow a little better at cold temperatures and does  hold up better under high temps. It seems to not break down as fast.

As far as having an advantage in efficiency, if it did it would be hard to measure. Most of the oil companies claims are just marketing.

I have used synthetic oil in my vehicles for 20 years. Right now I have conventional oil in my scooter.

[axy]

no please nit pick, if these instanious changes were due to something else I need to know. I would hae to be missinforming and that is what the forum is for, discussion of the subject so we all can better understand. I am new to these types of tweaks and haven't had a new bike in 35 years, so again please................

I would attribute all of the above to run-in and some additional mileage on spanking new scoot.
In 2008/2009 I bought two new scoots and a car.
I remember when I first drove Agility, I swear it felt like it had 40 % of power compared to what it feels like now.
I could barely accelerate with my car when it was new. Now it has 10.000 kms on it and finally it is possible to drive it normally, especially after 5-6.000 km mark.

I would not make any connection between effects you noticed and type of oil.

I run my scoots on synthetic oil but it is overkill for most purposes. I do it just because I can get it for the price of mineral oil, so what the heck... otherwise I would use semi.

Do not fret about all these things, just change oil regularly, use good semi or full synt and that's it...

[Cortez]

If I say that all of this things have nothing to do with synthetic oil, I risk being labeled as nitpicker, because this is the second thing today I do not agree about with you.

I read his post.. wanted to reply something like you did.. but for some strange reason
decided not to.

I was also gonna go for 1) break-in or 2) placebo.
This has nothing to do with oil.

[TANWare]

I read his post.. wanted to reply something like you did.. but for some strange reason
decided not to.

I was also gonna go for 1) break-in or 2) placebo.
This has nothing to do with oil.

Definaely not placebo, I am fully aware of this with time spen on computers and modifications there. The reason for the first 720 miles I paid extremely close attetion to certain behaviours and also carefully metered my inupts etc.

I got to ride it yesterday for anotheer 60 miles and place it at interstate speeds. II got to do 2 short WOT's too. indicated 88 MPH and then 90 MPH, same setion I ran before. the first time. too many other viariables could contribute to the slight increase.

Pull from roll at 65 is slightly stronger, nothing to write home about and admitedly without actuall numbers could be percieved as a placebo effect. If there is an increase in high speed operations it is something without a dyno you really will not notice that much. Before I did this that is where I thought I would notice the differences.

Stopping on a slight grqade before the bike did not want to roll backwards on its own, through all 720 miles. Right after the Sythetic it suddenly does. Now it could be the first oil was so cheap that good Dino oil would have done the same thing. That I don't know but if your bike is not free rolling easier that it did before the first service a snythetic may be the way to go.

I did not mention the engine running smooter or quieter as, while it does now, the engine has been getting better over time. The idle mirror shake I did mention as since day one that has been the same or at least not a noticeable difference.
after the synthetic that reduced significantly in one fell swoop.

I have to stand by the throttle input as I am noticing less input for the same acceleration, we are not talking WOT here. I notice the difference big time 0-45 MPH, while still there at 45-60 MPH the increase definately declines the harder you are pushing it. I have noticed I can feather the grip to get to just 2,000 RPM when standing still but it is now tricky to hit it just soft enough.

So I am suprised as I didn't expect the changes where I see them and actually don't see them where I had expected too. In hind sight I guess once rolling at 65 MPH the wind resistance makes any minor change such as this barely if not totally unnoticable. While the increase seems to be minor, offereing little increase to WOT, At low to medium throttle power has a much more noticable effect. The problem with numbers here on a dyno is they are WOT not partial throttle so it would be hard to actually measure..............

[axy]

Definaely not placebo, I am fully aware of this with time spen on computers and modifications there. The reason for the first 720 miles I paid extremely close attetion to certain behaviours and also carefully metered my inupts etc.

I got to ride it yesterday for anotheer 60 miles and place it at interstate speeds. II got to do 2 short WOT's too. indicated 88 MPH and then 90 MPH, same setion I ran before. the first time. too many other viariables could contribute to the slight increase.

Pull from roll at 65 is slightly stronger, nothing to write home about and admitedly without actuall numbers could be percieved as a placebo effect. If there is an increase in high speed operations it is something without a dyno you really will not notice that much. Before I did this that is where I thought I would notice the differences.

Stopping on a slight grqade before the bike did not want to roll backwards on its own, through all 720 miles. Right after the Sythetic it suddenly does. Now it could be the first oil was so cheap that good Dino oil would have done the same thing. That I don't know but if your bike is not free rolling easier that it did before the first service a snythetic may be the way to go.

I did not mention the engine running smooter or quieter as, while it does now, the engine has been getting better over time. The idle mirror shake I did mention as since day one that has been the same or at least not a noticeable difference.
after the synthetic that reduced significantly in one fell swoop.

I have to stand by the throttle input as I am noticing less input for the same acceleration, we are not talking WOT here. I notice the difference big time 0-45 MPH, while still there at 45-60 MPH the increase definately declines the harder you are pushing it. I have noticed I can feather the grip to get to just 2,000 RPM when standing still but it is now tricky to hit it just soft enough.

So I am suprised as I didn't expect the changes where I see them and actually don't see them where I had expected too. In hind sight I guess once rolling at 65 MPH the wind resistance makes any minor change such as this barely if not totally unnoticable. While the increase seems to be minor, offereing little increase to WOT, At low to medium throttle power has a much more noticable effect. The problem with numbers here on a dyno is they are WOT not partial throttle so it would be hard to actually measure..............

TAN, there is no polite way about this, but no serious person will continue this discussion because none of the above can be attributed to synthetic oil, regardless of your personal experience. NHF

[old geezer]

TAN, there is no polite way about this, but no serious person will continue this discussion because none of the above can be attributed to synthetic oil, regardless of your personal experience. NHF

Yeah, thats right on. No way will synthetic give all the above improvements. I guess you spend the money for a higher priced oil and you want so much for it to work as some of the marketing hype says and your mind plays tricks on you (placebo effect), sorry.