CVT Upgrade

[sidthesloth]

G'day all, engine has started rattling at idle and, to be honest, I didn't pick it for what it was, the variator slide bushes chewed and gone. I now think that increasing the power is taking it's toll on the tranny. The belt face of the variator is pitted badly and the clutch pulley faces are also pitted but not as bad. Does anyone have recommendations for a cvt upgrade that will last? I will post some pics of the variator soon as I can.

[streido]

My Agility seems to get a rattle noise when riding, I thought it was maybe the rollers rattling about or the ramp plate on the variator. Sure I never had it before I upgraded to the race variator a few months ago. My old stock variator was on bad shape anyway, all groved and worn, did 12,500km on it. I know my variator is ok cos I checked it last week. Def got a intermittent rattle noise from some part of the engine or tranny tho, no real idea what it is. Waiting for a new clutch cos mine is in bad shape so see if that helps the rattle too. Been bugging me for weeks now to find what it is.

What variator do you use?

[sidthesloth]

I have been using a race variator from scooter assassins for about a year now. The slides wore out a couple of months ago, so I bought a new one, I was happy with the first one. This one is stuffed after only a couple of months.

[streido]

Was it the gy6 clone variator u fitted? Thats the one I got from Scooter Assassins, been using it a few months now, seems fine still tho cos I checked it last week. Noticed the ramp plate was not as tight tho as on my stock variator. Still if yours is gone after a few months then thats no good, ask for a free replacement off them?

Now you got me worried about the build quality of my own variator

[sidthesloth]

It was listed as a race variator, mine is not a gy6, it is a 2 stroke. The same unit is listed for different models, may have different size inner bush or outer diameter. I is not the variator that fails, but the slide bushes, they are plastic. Next time you take your variator out, can you post some pics of the ramp plate and bushes please?

[streido]

No probs, will do post pics when I can. Fitting new clutch soon as my 1000rpm spring arrives so will do it then. Here is the one I got in my scooter, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RACE-VARIATOR-GY6-50-KYMCO-BAOTIAN-LIFAN-Chinese-/300540989339?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item45f9a38f9b
Does it looks similair? I found the plastic guides were not as good as on my stock one and also the hole in the centre of the ramp plate seems very slightly too big, def bigger than my stock one but then that was so tight on that I could hardly get it off so think I had probs with it anyway. Cos ramp plate seems a little loose to me I thought that is maybe where my rattle comes from.

Will post pics soon as I get my spring.

[sidthesloth]

G'dy streido, that link you posted looks like a stock replacement, but they do list it as a race variator with modified ramp plate.
I tried to post a pic of mine, but it seems the upload folder is full.
Here is a link to the one I bought
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RACE-VARIATOR-KYMCO-ZX50-ZX-Fever-50-Fever-II-50-/400202207211?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d2de90feb

[streido]

Yeah sid it does look stockish but it is def better cos my top speed improved probably 5-8mph and my acceleration is now much smoother and has no flat spots, my stock had bad flat spot from around 27-32mph. Im pretty happy with it, mayne upgrade to a named variator once I need to replace it, just wanted to see how better a race variator was before I put up the cash for a malossi or similair.

Thinking last night, im going to try adapt my stock ramp plate to fit the race variator. The one that came with it has crap plastic guides on it that just feel and look cheap. I take it the ramp plate is meant to move freely on the spindle in the crankcase? My stock plate was quite tight and hardly came off, the centre hole seemed too small, took about 10mins to pull it off!  The new one that came with my race variator is a little tiny bit too loose, in my opinion. Plan to very slightly widen the centre hole on my stock plate at weekend and then try that, hope between this and my new clutch the rattle noise stops.

I dont think my problem is serious but i'd rather be sure what it is so I dont need to worry.

Still say if your variator is bad after a couple of months they should send you a free replacement, why dont you email them and ask, must be worth a try?

[sidthesloth]

Maybe your ramp plate is too loose and the cause of your rattles. I have emailed him to see what his reply is, but I think it is just a cheap variator and I have increased the engine capacity. Will see what he says, but either way, I need some new bits. It would seem that now is the time to spend a few dollars. The scoot is not my only transport, but where I work I don't like taking the car there or the bikes, that is why I took on the scoot when Mrs. Sid had moved up to a bike.

[streido]

Yeah sid im hoping that is where my rattle comes from, prob going to try sliders too instead of rollers but skint so need to wait till payday next month now.

Out of interest, how long should a variator last do you think? With our being no brand types do you think the named make race variators will last much longer?

I really fancy a malossi multivar but the prices are a joke 2.5x the price of the one I got already!

Let us know if you find the prob on yours, i'll see how mine goes after I fit my clutch and adapt my ramp plate.

[sidthesloth]

The first one I bought lasted nearly a year, the variator isn't the problem in itself, it is the plastic bushes. Brass bushes would be preferable, but in doing that you up the price. My current variator only lasted a couple of months, I'm not happy about that but, that is the joy of buying cheap parts. I guess a year should be acceptable for a cheap one.

[sidthesloth]

I just went out and tried my new variator on my stock crank. The ramp plate is a close fit but not tight, it will rock on the shaft.
Is your variator a snug fit on your sleeve (drive boss)? Also, when you tighten the nut that holds the variator on, does that hold the ramp plate back against the shoulder of the shaft? If not, that would be the source of your rattle, you may need to place a shim behind the ramp plate or between the ramp plate and sleeve or a washer between the sleeve and drive face to keep things tight. If the variator is snug on the sleeve, with the plastic bushes in place, that should centre the ramp plate anyway and the nut should hold it all together. Hope I explained that ok.

[streido]

Will need to check at the weekend when I do my clutch, if scooter assassins every deliver my 1000rpm spring. The old stock ramp plate was solid, had no play at all, would not slide up and down on crank, could hardly get it off. Had to spend ages teasing it off by waggling it, almost gave up and was going to cut it off, but I got it in the end without doing that. My new variator fits snug on the boss and has no extra looseness, seems ok, sure its my ramp plate now. Will try your advice of a shim or washer behind it if it feels loose when I tighten my variator up, if I can get my fingers in to check. Its the actual centre hole that to me seems maybe a half mm or so too large for the crank, maybe its meant to be like that tho? Going to drill my stock hole a touch bigger and try that at the weekend anyway.

I got my scoot 2nd hand, done about 11,000km then I changed to the variator I posted, sure the stock one had been the original so had lasted 3yrs exactly when I got it. Was a bit worn and grooved but still worked ok. The stock plate on my old stock variator has plastic bushes too, do the more expensive ones have brass then?

Dont see much point in splashing out now for a good malossi etc unless I was getting a good 3-4yrs out of it at least, will just stick to the cheapo ones prob for now.

Surely you can just buy new bushes for a few quid instead of having to get a whole new variator?

[sidthesloth]

No, they don't have brass bushes, that was just a thought. When you try to see if the ramp plate is held tight, take off the variator and rollers and put the ramp plate on, then the sleeve and drive face, tighten the nut and see if the ramp plate is held tight, if not then your drive boss would be a little short.
Yes, you can buy the bushes for the variators for only a few dollars.

[streido]

Think my boss is ok cos I compared it to my original collared boss before I fitted it and it was same length etc. I really think my rattle is off my ramp plate or rollers and the more I think about it, the surer I am. So its probably something altogether completely different lol.

So just to clarify, when the variator moves in and lifts the belt up the face, the ramp plate would not move anyway due to the boss stopping it? Correct? So after I tighten up my variator nut I should be able to move the variator out by pulling it, but the ramp plate will not move? Or it shouldnt anyway?

Will check it out at the weekend, will have clutch out anyway so can take belt off and feel around behind the variator then. Thanks Sid. Hope you get you rattle sorted too with new bushes.