Xciting 500 start problem. Stumped.

[Cameo]

I'm suffering from beautiful weather and a scooter that won't start.  Hoping that someone has some insight on the issue...

My 2007 Xciting 500 (carbureted) was running well the other day.  I stopped the engine by setting the side-stand.  Ten minutes later, I raised the side-stand and attempted to re-start the engine.  The starter cranks and the engine turns over but will not fire.  I behaves as though the side-stand is still down.

Since then I have done the following:
- confirmed my start procedure is correct
- checked all fuses
- filled with 93 octane gas, added sea foam
- replaced spark plug
- tested fuel pump by wiring directly
- boosted battery for faster starter rotation
- temporarily bypassed the side-stand kill switch
- changed oil (I was already dirty and running out of thing to do)

The biggest clue is that when turning the key to the first position, the fuel pump does not prime as it usually does.

Any help on this issue would be entirely appreciated.

[Hoolander2]

Gee, that IS a stumper.  My '07s fuel pump doesn't always prime (clicking) when I turn the key.  I believe if the system is already pressurized, such as if you've turned the key on a few minutes previously, you won't hear it prime because it's still primed from previous turn on.  Do you think this is the case?  If not, then I'd be looking for a stuck float valve or clogged fuel line.

Perhaps the Seafoam isn't making it to the carb because of that.   

Is the spark plug wet after cranking for a bit? 

 

[Dr. Scooter]

Dr. Scooter will chime in. First question how long do you leave your scooter parked without riding. Second check fuel filter after 4500 miles it was time to replace my filter. I have the 07 as well with 9000 miles on it at the moment. Parked time is a big enemy of scooters. I have spent hours on many that are left sitting for the winter no matter how you winterize them they will sometimes act out. When I first purchased my 07 used I have to completely go through the carb cleaning it I spent a lot of time on the jets for the simple fact it does not take much to clog them with as small as they are. In America they are starting to add ethanol to fuel and I would rather park my scooter at times rather then fill up due to this. Ethanol is a bad thing on small engines because the fuel system is so delicate. I am not going to be around a computer all weekend but I have messanger on my phone you can catch me there I want to help you resolve your scooter issue if I can. stophatinpits@yahoo.com

[Cameo]

The scooter sits in my garage for the Winter months, late November - late February. I've done well to avoid ethanol additives in gas.  I'm near 14,000 miles and have yet to replace the fuel filter, though it appears to be clean.

On replacing the spark plug I found the original to be fine.  Normal wear, not wet.

I'm fairly certain the fuel pump is not receiving power when the key is turned.  I need to verify this with a meter, but when I wired the pump directly with all fuel lines attached it primed for 5 or 6 "clicks" until it was pressurized. 

[Cameo]

Update:
There is no voltage reaching the fuel pump and there is no spark.

I verified the side-stand switch is functional and the engine kill switch is functional.  In testing the bank angle sensor, there appears to be a short on the black/blue terminal.  I removed this part and rattled it a bit and remounted. It still tests bad.  The black/white terminal shows 12.83 v while the black/blue shows 0.43 v.

Does anyone know how to bypass the bank angle sensor to verify that this is the faulty part?

[Hoolander2]

Sorry, no.  But I wouldn't mind taking it out of mine completely.  Please update when you figure this out, Cameo.

[axy]

Update:
There is no voltage reaching the fuel pump and there is no spark.

I verified the side-stand switch is functional and the engine kill switch is functional.  In testing the bank angle sensor, there appears to be a short on the black/blue terminal.  I removed this part and rattled it a bit and remounted. It still tests bad.  The black/white terminal shows 12.83 v while the black/blue shows 0.43 v.

Does anyone know how to bypass the bank angle sensor to verify that this is the faulty part?

I would suggest testing the micro switches behind brake levers, but considering that it cranks, they seem to be OK.
I think it is a good sign that there is no electricity both on the pump and there is no spark plug. This means that fix will be simple and inexpensive, once found.

Had no idea that Xciting has bank angle sensor. My People 250S does not.

Take a look at http://cbrforum.com/forum/general-tech-9/bank-angle-sensor-fuel-pump-not-priming-96708/ .

Finally, once I had issue like this with my gf'a A125 and after tearing it apart, it started working when I disconnected and connected back the CDI (!). It is worth trying (and you might spray the contacts with WD 40 while you are at it .

[Dr. Scooter]

The bank angle sensor has saved my rear a few times but help me out is it just a two wire plug or not I am on yahoo messagener hit me there for a faster reply

[Dr. Scooter]

Ok have you tried to plug the bank angle sensor back in and tried to start your bike sense you have deenergized the sensor. If not disconnect your battery let the bike it awhile. Hook the battery back up and plug the sensor back in and try to start the bike. I have a pressed feeling the sensor is bad if so your best bet is to just order one. I would rather my bike fall over and shut down rather then it try and pull of and cause more damage.

[Cameo]

I did manage to remove and open the bank angle sensor.  There's a pac-man shaped magnet that rotates on an axle.  At the top of the sensor is a small circuit chip.  It looks like it's designed so that the magnet will interfere with the circuitry when the sensor is tilted beyond 60 degrees on either side. 

To answer your question, yes.  I've put the sensor back in and tested. No luck.  Same behavior.  There's much discussion about disabling this part amongst the Honda CBR group but I think the Kymco sensor is a totally different part and I'm reluctant to try jumping the wires.  So I suppose the only way to proceed is replacement of the sensor, fingers crossed.

I have all panels off the bike and disconnected and reconnected every connector I can find.  If replacing the BAS doesn't work, then next suspect will be the ignition control unit. 

I'm learning as I go.  I appreciate all of the suggestions I've received.

[Dr. Scooter]

Cameo I read that same post and found out that we can not bypass ours because of how the voltage is run we would end up frting something important and fast another reason I would not try to bypass the bas sensor. Have you tried checking the fuel pump relay as well. I am trying to think of other things in that harness that may cause trouble. But it all still points to the bas sensor since you have no power to the fuel pump nor do you have any spark

[Dr. Scooter]

Hey you doing any good yet or still waiting on parts

[Cameo]

Placed an order 2 days ago.  Estimated delivery July, 14th.  I'll let you know, for sure.

[Dr. Scooter]

Thanks shared info is the best

[Hoolander2]

Cameo, I'm impressed you zeroed in on the problem so well and quick.  I'd have gone down the wrong paths completely. 

In the meantime, while you're waiting for parts, could you or anybody here tell us how the BAS is supposed to "save" you?  I mean like examples please?  I ask because I have this idea that mine cuts my motor off sometimes when I don't want it to -- such as when I occasionally whip the scooter back and forth quickly.