Headlight Bulb - H4 or S2?

[jstluise]

I brought this up in a related thread, but it got buried.  I figured it was worth having its own.

I was looking to upgrade my headlight to a higher wattage (from 35/35 to 55/60).  I saw several posts stating the headlight is the H4 style.  To my surprise, my headlight is not H4, but rather S2.

Specifically, my headlight is "12728 S2 Philips Duplo 12v 35/35W" and it looks like this:


Compare this to an H4 bulb:


Now, I can't find much for the S2 style bulb.  There are plenty of options for the H4 since it is a standard bulb for vehicles.

First, what gives?  Why do I have a S2 bulb when everyone else has a H4?  It's a 2009.  I'm in the USA if that matters.
Second, does anyone know where to get a 55/60 S2 bulb?  I came up with nothing.

My options: a) keep riding with this crappy stock bulb where I can't even see 30 feet in front of me, b) ride with my high beam on to improve my vision and piss off other drivers, c) keep trying to track down a S2 bulb, d) Spend ~$75 to get a replacement body panel with the H4 socket, or e) modify my current setup with a donor H4 socket off a car or something.

All I know is that it feels like I am riding blind in the dark. Something has to change.

[marioG]

what about HID H7R conversion?

[jstluise]

what about HID H7R conversion?

How does this work?  Really, I haven't seen much of anything for the S2 bulb...seems like it is really outdated or something?

Also, "HID Conversion" kits are usually pretty expensive from what I've seen.

[marioG]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/H4-H-L-MOTORCYCLE-HID-XENON-CONVERSION-KIT-6000K-C154-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4aad1d65ceQQitemZ320731964878QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[JustWantToRide]

The Bad News:
It looks like that kit will convert H4 Halogen to H4 Xenon - but his Agility has the S2 plug and mounting hardware.  And a Xenon (HID) bulb in a Halogen reflector blinds oncoming traffic and will get you bounced off the road by an angry driver.


The Good news:
You can get a Philips 12v 45W/40W BA20D (BA20D is the standard for an S2 bulb) for $22 from DonsBulbs.com:

http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/12748%7C12v%7C45w%7C40w%7Cba20d%7Cb35mm%7Cduplo~philips.html


If you switch to an H4 headlight then you should probably use an LED bulb.  An LED won't be as bright as a halogen 55/60w, but it will be brighter than your current 35w S2.  The problem is that Kymco put that S2 in your Agility because the Alternator doesn't put out enough to run a 55/60W bulb.  You could switch to the H4 Halogen, and if it doesn't keep the battery charged then switch other bulbs on the bike to LED (instrument cluster, tail/stop, turn signals.  That would add another $40 or so - but it would get you a bright halogen headlight. 

For about $100 you could add some PIAA LED lights.  They are only going to put out about as much light as your current 35w S2 - but they draw so little current you could just add them and double your output.  I mounted a couple on a Buell Blast.  They helped it's 60/55w headlight light the way, and they looked cool.

They sell S2 LED bulbs in 360 degree for $25 (search for ba20d, not S2) - but I can't find anything with more lumens than your 35w halogen.

My advice - try the $22 45w bulb.

[jstluise]

Sweeet!  Thanks for the info.  Just knowing BA20D = S2 helped me out a lot.  I will search around and find a higher wattage BA20D bulb first.  This seems like my best and most cost effective solution.

Also, the stator is rated for 144W @ 5000 RPM, and riders with the 55/60W haven't experienced any problems (that I have read).  Maybe the only problem would be hitting the brakes at a low rpm/idle...but then again you can upgrade your brake light to LED.

Thanks again!

[JustWantToRide]

Also, the stator is rated for 144W @ 5000 RPM, and riders with the 55/60W haven't experienced any problems (that I have read).  Maybe the only problem would be hitting the brakes at a low rpm/idle...but then again you can upgrade your brake light to LED.

Thanks again!

I just sold my Zuma 125 which had 2 60/65w headlights which I wired to both be on at the same time (from the factory you get one for high, and one for low).  Having a single 60/55w on my Xciting will take some getting used to...  When I would idle my Zuma at a stoplight the headlights would diim - but I never sat long enough to worry about it.  Some bikes will handle running the charging system past it's capacity for a while, and some won't.  Some people that converted the mainland China scooters from 35w S2's to H4's blew their h4 bulbs because they couldn't keep enough juice to them.  Halogen bulbs need to operate at a minimum temperature or they fail often.  A lot of them melted the headlight enclosures because they didn't upgrade them too.  Having a version of your bike that came with the H4 helps a lot.  But something other than the headlight bulb is probably different.  Either they have stronger alternators (more windings) or they are using fewer watts elsewhere.  It's possible Kymco just decided they were close enough on the wattage to run the stronger bulbs - but I wouldn't count on it.

Enjoy your scoot - it looks like a fun one.

[jstluise]

Yeah I agree something must have changed if they went from an H4 to S2 bulb.  I don't know what other reason for the change would be.  Anyways, something has to be upgraded.  Riding in the dark sucks right now.  When I am around street lights it is fine but once I hit unlit roads I have to "feel" my way around the road instead of "see" it...not very fun.

I am going to get a 45w bulb ordered.  A lot of them on eBay.  I might as well go ahead and get a LED for my brake light, too.

[kriden]

Good posts regarding the bulb issue with the Agility.  I also found that the issue is not just with the bulb they chose to use, but with the whole reflector design.  Just never really seemed to do much in terms of throwing light out.  I ended up adding a small 35 watt driving light.  It worked very nicely.  I wired it to the battery with a relay that had a separate switch.  I also hooked the "over-seas" front turn signals back up as I noticed the bulbs where there and just the wires were unhooked.  I wired them to be on with the low beam and had no charging issues etc.  Also, when I used the passing button and flashed the high beam, it made more noticeable as more lights were flashing etc.  Great little scoot.  Sold it in June and just got the Like 200i.  Kymco does make some nice scooters.

[jstluise]

Good posts regarding the bulb issue with the Agility.  I also found that the issue is not just with the bulb they chose to use, but with the whole reflector design.  Just never really seemed to do much in terms of throwing light out.  I ended up adding a small 35 watt driving light.  It worked very nicely.  I wired it to the battery with a relay that had a separate switch.  I also hooked the "over-seas" front turn signals back up as I noticed the bulbs where there and just the wires were unhooked.  I wired them to be on with the low beam and had no charging issues etc.  Also, when I used the passing button and flashed the high beam, it made more noticeable as more lights were flashing etc.  Great little scoot.  Sold it in June and just got the Like 200i.  Kymco does make some nice scooters.

Yeah, I agree about the reflector design.  Seems like it could be better.  I like the looks of that driving light!  I bet it did a good job of providing some extra light.  How was the load on the stator when you had both headlights on (35W headlight + 35W running light)?  Any noticeable dimming at an idle?

I am not aware of the "over-seas" front turn signal back up...care to explain? 

I haven't got a around to upgrading my headlight.  Found a website that has the 45/45 S2 as well as a 60/60 S2 bulb for pretty cheap...thought I would order a couple of each just to try them out.  The 60 might be too much, though.  A 45/45 bulb with the addition of a running light would be nice for running in the dark...and then just leave off the running light for day time riding.

I am also planning to change out the brake light bulb for an LED and add a brake light flashing module (flashes a few times before it goes soild).  I might buy LED bulbs for the turn signals or buy aftermarket LED turn signals (complete w/ housing)...for a nice custom look    Of course, that means I'll have to either buy an electronic flashing relay or make my own (a simple circuit for a couple bucks + my time, compared to a $15-20 unit that is already made).

 

[JustWantToRide]

The "overseas turn signals" are the little lights below the headlight.  They are too close together to meet US and Canadian requirements so Kymco adds turn signals to the handlebars and powers them instead.

I'm glad to hear you mention changing the relay for the LED's instead of adding "load equalizers" - I don't understand why so many people use them.

If you switch your turn signal bulbs to LED's then you might also want to wire in some "majic blinker" modules.  They change the turn signals to always on, and blinking off. 

I haven't ever seen a 60/60 S2, but I would be concerned about using brighter (ergo hotter) than a 45 in the stock housing.  The advantage to the add on 35w driving light is being able to turn it on and off as needed.  Kymco seems to "optimize" the alternator by making it as small as possible rather than carrying additional weight to have extra power available.  I added a black Kurakyn voltmeter to my dash to watch it because I tend to add load with extra light, stebel horn, heated grips...

[jstluise]

The "overseas turn signals" are the little lights below the headlight.  They are too close together to meet US and Canadian requirements so Kymco adds turn signals to the handlebars and powers them instead.

That's what I thought.  They are inside the housing, right?  I saw the little lights when I had the headlight apart and wondered what they were.  Didn't really think to check if they were hooked up or not.

I'm glad to hear you mention changing the relay for the LED's instead of adding "load equalizers" - I don't understand why so many people use them.

If you switch your turn signal bulbs to LED's then you might also want to wire in some "majic blinker" modules.  They change the turn signals to always on, and blinking off. 

Exactly!  I guess it depends on your purpose of switching to LEDs.  A large part of my reason is to cut down on power consumption, but most people do it for looks (well, me too).  Someone with a vehicle that plenty of electrical power will not care if they use load equalizers...but if your main goal is to cut down on power consumption then using load equalizers completely defeats the purpose; the load equalizer dissipates the power that would have otherwise been dissipated by the original bulb.

For anyone that is familiar with electrical circuits, the electronic flasher relay that you can buy can be made with a simple 555 astable circuit paired with a relay.  You can tune the circuit to have whatever duty cycle you want (% time on to % time off) and whatever frequency you like.  Unlike the original flasher on the scooter, the electronic flasher relay is not load dependent.  Just a matter of integrating it correctly into the scooter's wiring; I have taken a look at the scooter to see how the blinker circuit is set up yet, otherwise I'd post a schematic of the 555 circuit that can be built.  It would definitely be easier to pay the ~$15, but I like to tinker 

That "majic blinker" module sounds interesting.  So you are basically turning your blinkers into running lights?  This could be achieved in the 555 circuit as well.

I haven't ever seen a 60/60 S2, but I would be concerned about using brighter (ergo hotter) than a 45 in the stock housing.  The advantage to the add on 35w driving light is being able to turn it on and off as needed.  Kymco seems to "optimize" the alternator by making it as small as possible rather than carrying additional weight to have extra power available.  I added a black Kurakyn voltmeter to my dash to watch it because I tend to add load with extra light, stebel horn, heated grips...

Eiko is the only bulbs I saw that are BA20D (S2).  They have the 60/60: http://eiko.com/Search.aspx?SearchParams=BA20D&tp=0&xref=False&page=0

I would be concerned as well about using the 60/60 in the stock housing.  I know people were using the 55/60 H4 bulbs without problems, though.  I'd expect the regular incandescent bulbs to be cooler than the fancy H4 bulbs (Xenon) that you can buy.  I dunno...definitely something to consider.

Still leaning toward running a 45/45 and adding a driving light (any links?) for that very reason you mentioned: ability to turn it on (night) and off (day) as needed.  Good idea about the voltmeter...

[JustWantToRide]

PIAA driving lights are my favourites.  I normally watch eBay for them.  I bought a pair of the round 35w LED's for $85 and loved them.  I wish I still had them to add to my Xciting...  I've also had the small round 35W Halogen, the flat ones in different sizes, and some of the 100w 6" offroad only units (nothing says dim your lights like 6 100w lights).  If you're going with one 35W then I would get the flat one and mount it centered under the cowling.

I've bought several other brands - but I think that on a scooter it's more important to get one that won't vibrate apart...

[bthmtech]

hello , i put a 50/50 watt ba20d zenon bulb in my agility 125 and it melted the socket be very carefull  i also put led turn singnals on my bike and added 2 load resistors  from radio shack part # 271-0132 for about two bucks and they work great, i am going to try to modifiy housing to accept h4 bulb will let you know how that works out also i tryed wiring a relay off the headlight switch [ before the socket melted] and it was just to much for the stator,    bryan

[JustWantToRide]

Those load resistors are making those LED turn signals use as much electricity as a regular bulb to get the flash rate correct.  You could lighten the load on your stator if you remove the resistors and swap your blinker module for one made for LED's.

http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/product/LOCKHART-PHILLIPS-LED-TURN-SIGNAL-FLASHER-RELAY-UNIVERSAL/?id=104032