Author Topic: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !  (Read 6103 times)

jas67

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People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« on: October 19, 2011, 06:22:31 PM »
I have only had this PS250 for a few weeks, and am still learning it.

I took it up to 90 MPH (about 140 kph) indicated (probably 84-85 MPH based on average optimism of the speedo on this model) yesterday (on an open road with excellent visibility and no cross traffic or places for animals or vehicles to hide).   It felt like it could go faster, but I didn't want to push it.    It felt very stable at that speed.   

I also filled it (fuel) for the 2nd time, so I did my first MPG calculation.     I got 69 MPG!    I know that this probably has +/- 10% error based on accuracy of fill, and will get  a more accurate number averaging many fills, but I'm still impressed, as I have been using WOT a lot on acceleration (why, because it is fun).

85 MPH top speed, and nearly 70 MPG; what's not to like!

So far, I'm liking it a lot!
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

eugenec

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2011, 12:15:31 AM »
Enjoy and be safe.

(What's not to like? Wait till you need to change rear turn lights or top off brake fluid)

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2011, 12:39:55 AM »
Enjoy and be safe.

(What's not to like? Wait till you need to change rear turn lights or top off brake fluid)

I have an LED brake light bulb that I bought for my Moto Guzzi, which doesn't fit.    I'm thinking about installing it in the PS250, but it isn't obvious how to remove the lens...
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

eugenec

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2011, 03:54:23 AM »
You will have to remove most of the body panels just to get to the tail light. In the process you run the risk of breaking the locking tabs of the body panels. To avoid removing the body panels, I ended up drilling a few holes in the under side of the tail assembly (above the rear tire) so I can unscrew the bolts holding the tail light assembly using a long neck screw driver. Not a fun thing to do but doable.

axy

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2011, 07:51:43 AM »
85 MPH top speed, and nearly 70 MPG; what's not to like!

70 US mpg is 3.4 l/100 km.
Lowest consumption I've recorded on mine is around 3.8 l/100 km or 62 US mpg. This is in the summer.
In the winter it is usually 4.4 l/100 km or 54 US mpg.

Here is what's not to like:

- metal parts made of low quality and prone to rusting
- front wheel tends to lock easily
- widens trajectory when heavily cornering and exiting the curve
- rear suspension bottoms out easily with 120+ kg of passenger weight
- not easily accessible maintenance (change of brake fluid = few hours, change of coolant = almost a day ; when you do it first time)
- spare parts can be bought only from Kymco and extremely expensive
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2011, 01:00:56 PM »
70 US mpg is 3.4 l/100 km.
Lowest consumption I've recorded on mine is around 3.8 l/100 km or 62 US mpg. This is in the summer.
In the winter it is usually 4.4 l/100 km or 54 US mpg.

Here is what's not to like:

- metal parts made of low quality and prone to rusting

Same can probably said about a lot of scooters.     I just got my 2007 used from a local rental fleet.    It had 3400 miles on it at time of purchase.   So far, no rust.    The real test will be when I take it to Assateague Island for our annual week at the beach, where it will get exposed to the salt air.    Which specific parts have rusted for you (maybe I'll coat them in petroleum jelly before the trip -- I've done that with steel parts on my bicycles).

I guess I'm not expecting the same quality out of a scooter that retailed for $4399 as compared with my Moto Guzzi that retailed for around $8,000.   I only paid $1600 for it, so my expectations might not be as high as yours.

- front wheel tends to lock easily
I'll keep this in mind.
- widens trajectory when heavily cornering and exiting the curve
Explain?
- rear suspension bottoms out easily with 120+ kg of passenger weight
I weigh 81 kg, and haven't carried a passenger yet.     I do find the ride to be a little harsh, as compared to my Moto Guzzi.
- not easily accessible maintenance (change of brake fluid = few hours, change of coolant = almost a day ; when you do it first time)
This is definitely an area where (naked) motorcycles are much better.   You don't have a lot of plastic shtuff to remove to get at the mechanical bits.   I'm actually considering just paying the local dealer to do a full fluid change and valve adjustment to avoid the annoyance of having to remove all the plastic bits.   They quoted me like $150 for the whole service.    I'm thinking it might be worth it.   Plus, I get the added benefit of establishing a relationship with the dealer.

Since I have a motorcycle too, I plan on using the scoot for mostly shorter trips, like local errands, and also as an alternative means of transport to our nearly 8000# truck when on camping trips (truck used to pull 34' travel trailer).   So, mileage-based maintenance is reduced this way.   Longer rides will be on my motorcycle anyway.     One disappointing thing about the PS250 is the lack of on oil filter, which necessitates much more frequent oil changes (1200 miles, vs. 6000 for my motorcycle).   Heck, even the 175cc engine in the Yager has an oil filter.    I guess the flip side of that I don't have to buy oil filters.   I have read that oil filters for the P300GTi are like $30.    Each oil change only costs me $8 in oil, and no money for labor, just the 15 minutes or so to change it.

- spare parts can be bought only from Kymco and extremely expensive
And this is different from any other make/model of scooter (or motorcycle for that matter)?

In summary, all your complaints about the Kymco apply to just about every other brand.    I was also shopping scooters from the Piaggio family (Vespa/Piaggio/Aprilia).    A used equivalent from any of them would have been double the money, and parts availability can be an issue.     And, from everything I've read, the PS250 is very much an equivalent from a performance and quality standpoint as the BV250, or Scaraboe 250.

I see you have both a PS250, and an Agility 125.   Which one is the source of most of your complaints?    The Agility 125 is made in mainland China, and the PS250 in Taiwan.    The retail price of the Agility 125 is also less than half the PS250, so I would expect the quality of it to be lower.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 01:09:52 PM by jas67 »
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2011, 01:11:19 PM »
You will have to remove most of the body panels just to get to the tail light. In the process you run the risk of breaking the locking tabs of the body panels. To avoid removing the body panels, I ended up drilling a few holes in the under side of the tail assembly (above the rear tire) so I can unscrew the bolts holding the tail light assembly using a long neck screw driver. Not a fun thing to do but doable.

The access holes are a good idea.   Thanks for the tip, I'll likely do this to avoid removing the body panels.   I hate dealing with snap-together stuff.   I cringe whenever I have to disassemble any part of a car interior for the same reason.
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

axy

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2011, 01:16:35 PM »
You will find most answers to your questions in this thread, including pictures:
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=554.0

P250S has much lower build quality than A125. Judging about Chinese vs. Taiwanese factory is oversimplification. Methods and materials used are the same regardless of the factory location nowadays, especially with international brands.

A125 has 27.000 kms and close to zero problems. Even spare parts last longer (for example, never changed brake pads on A, while they were shot, both front and rear, with very light driving, at 13K km on P).

My P250S had a number of issues, ranging from broken speedo cable to leaking engine casing due to bad cast, that was replaced just shy of end of warranty.

Everything is described in that thread.

Btw. my complaints do not refer to every other brand. For example, on my Beverly, not all bolts and metallic parts were rusty after one winter. Engine casing did not start leaking oil after 6000 kms. It did not widen the trajectory on the exit and front wheel was not prone to locking AND going sideways while doing so. These are scooter specific characteristics.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 01:19:43 PM by axy »
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

axy

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2011, 01:24:22 PM »
Each oil change only costs me $8 in oil, and no money for labor, just the 15 minutes or so to change it.

Btw. you will find out that you have to remove two bolts to change oil. The first on the side of the pan is the oil drain plug. The other on the other side is used to retain the oil strainer (wire mesh filter). It is made of cheap alluminum alloy with rounded angles, so it tends to break very often and very easily. Replacement bolt is around 12-13 US$ in Kymco (I bought that one, and then found out I can buy the same but Chinese for 1 US$ with shipping -> it is 0.1 US$ for 20 pieces or more :))) .
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2011, 01:26:34 PM »
Axy,

   I've read your thread (after purchasing my PS250, of course).    I understand your comment about mainland vs. Taiwan, as Honda has even done manufacturing in mainland China (to their specs) with decent results.     If I read your thread about the problems you've had about your PS250, without mention of make/model, I would have guessed you had one of the low-end mainland Chinese brand scooters.    I have not found any other posts, here, or on other forums from anyone else having such problems with a PS250, or any other Kymco for that matter (not saying they're not there, I just haven't found 'em yet).    I know it is possible for lemons to exist on any make model bike, car, etc.    Heck, I've even read of BMW lemons in the letter's section of the BMWCCA magazine, Roundel.   It happens.   Hopefully (for me), you just got the unlucky lemon.

   As for parts longevity, specifically, you mentioned brake pads.   The PS250 is a heavier/faster bike than the A125.    Maybe that accounts for the shorter life on the brake pads?

   I'm glad to hear that the A125 has given you good service.    I have considered purchasing one to have as an extra for my wife and/or visiting friends to use, and see that they can be had used for the same or less money than one of the generic mainland-China brands.
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 01:30:28 PM »
Btw. you will find out that you have to remove two bolts to change oil. The first on the side of the pan is the oil drain plug. The other on the other side is used to retain the oil strainer (wire mesh filter). It is made of cheap alluminum alloy with rounded angles, so it tends to break very often and very easily. Replacement bolt is around 12-13 US$ in Kymco (I bought that one, and then found out I can buy the same but Chinese for 1 US$ with shipping -> it is 0.1 US$ for 20 pieces or more :))) .

Have you found the $1 Chinese part to be of equal quality to the Kymco part?   At $1, I'd just get a number of them, and use a new one each time.   I always use a new crush washer on the drain bolt on my BMW cars too.   The vendor I get oil filters form includes the crush washer, and the O-ringer for the filter (filter is not a spin on, but a drip in, O-ring is for the cap).

Thanks, BTW, for this info, as I will make sure I have this spare part BEFORE changing the oil, which I'm planning on doing soon.

Do you recommend a specific online vendor to obtain the part?

2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 01:33:26 PM »
Btw. my complaints do not refer to every other brand. For example, on my Beverly, not all bolts and metallic parts were rusty after one winter. Engine casing did not start leaking oil after 6000 kms. It did not widen the trajectory on the exit and front wheel was not prone to locking AND going sideways while doing so. These are scooter specific characteristics.

My reference to the complaints that apply to all brands, was more about spare parts needing to come from the manufacturer of the particular bike, and not-so-easy access for maintenance.    Since all scooters (except ones like the Honda Ruckus) hide all the mechanical bits under plastic covers, it only makes sense that these covers need be removed for maintenance.     This is one reason that I prefer naked motorcycles to fully-faired sport bikes.
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

old geezer

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 01:40:20 PM »
The build quality and materials on my S 250 look as good or better when compared to several other brands of scooters. You can't compare scooter frame material to a NASA rocket.

Also mine does not have the rear suspension problem. Its a 2010 though.

Should the frame be aluminum alloy. I don't think so. Should it be 4130 chrome molly? There are problems when welding 4130, it causes hydrogen embrittlement and has to be annealed in a high temp oven or it will brake down the road from being too brittle. No the frame and other fasteners are on par within the scooter industry standards with Kymco being on the high side.

Every now and again all the manufacturers will let one slip out that has a few problems. Can't paint the rest of them with the same brush.

Also some people's glass is always half empty, never half full.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 01:45:36 PM by scooterdude »

eugenec

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 02:13:17 PM »
- front wheel tends to lock easily

Definitely watch out for this one. I had been riding a 250 cruiser before I switch to my PS250. Within 2 weeks I dropped it because the front wheel locked up and I ended up bruises everythere.  Maybe I will disconnect one of the front brakes someday.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 02:15:40 PM by eugenec »

jas67

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Re: People S 250 goes 90 MPH (indicated) !
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2011, 02:20:26 PM »
Axy,

  Do you still have your PS250 and or the Beverly?
2007 People S 250
2009 Moto Guzzi V7 Classic

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