repair manuas

[jomama]

I dont know if anyone here can help me out but here goes. I am dealing with an intermiten and now no spark situation on my 04 peoples S125. The repair manual for this and the standard 125 model both have a chart ( although different rreadings for each model )for the testing procedure for the cdi unit. This chart challenges my ability to understand it. It also explains that a "SPECIAL" tester for the job because of a semi conductor in the unit. This is an $80 part here and I centainlly dont want to replace it for no good reason. With a standard FLUKE ( High Quality digital )tester some readings correspond with the chart ( even though I dont fully understand their testing procedure for some of it ) and some of the other tests are off the wall. Does anyone here have any experience testing these cdi ubits or have a knowledge of what the chart means?  I know this is asking a lot but I am stumped. 

[bilyum]

A repair shop probably would replace  the  part and if it runs you get the bill.

[zombie]

This may not help Buttttt, I have found SEVERAL bad wiring harness's in the past few years. Everything looks fine until you open the tape around the wires. The Chinese obviously have no time for quality control on wire. I have chased bad wires enough as to make a JIG. plug the stator into the cdi direct. same for the coil, and regulator.  you will need to make all the connectors, and triple check it all. The idea is to eliminate ALL of the factory wires, and allow you to ride the scoot. If it all runs well from there, you can make/replace the harness. I have a box of good replacement parts that often times seem bad as the problems don't go away  when you change them. The real problem is often times in the wire. (one strand connecting, and such). There was a poster here that had the same problem to the point I feared a Dealer Murder was about to occur. The dealer did find it after several months, and I believe he still lives...

[bilyum]

WOW !
You got my attention.That worries me.I was looking at some wiring on my Super 8 and just gave up.Almost impossible to trace harness,much less one conductor.
I am not sure but I think one company makes most of the engines of all scooters.
The Buddy 150 engine looks very much like the Super 8 engine.It maybe true for other parts also.

[zombie]

You are right about the engines. QMB makes MOST of the Kymco engines. They are a Chinese manuf. The harness's are any body's guess! They never match the color code from one end to the other. It may be easier for you to understand the harness if you take it one bit at a time. Any schematic/diagram will show what needs to go where. I have "hot wired" several scoots w/ intermittent running/starting issues, and found faulty wiring in 3-4 of them last year alone. My own Verucci 50cc 4t was given to me (cheap not free) because of 2 years of stalling/not starting. I hot wired it, and found there were 3 specific flaws in the harness. I now run it naked. (no body) ruckus style. I would start w/ removing the ign. kill wire (red/white) coming from the cdi. Just clip it, and go for a ride. To stop the engine just ground the same wire. If it performs correctly you may have a bad Ign. switch or short to ground in the harness (they use copper tabs to join multiple wires that will chafe other wires in the harness) If not then move to the stator wires going to the cdi. Jump them direct, eliminating the harness between them. So on w/ the coil wires, ect. W/ a mini harness or jig you can do all this in a few minutes. Or you can one at a time tackle it thru a Saturday morning. I hope this helps as wiring is the toughest trouble to shoot. Not saying this is definably your Prob. but in MANY cases it is.

[bilyum]

I found a wiring diagram on the web but it was not legible. I would like to know where I could get a wiring diagram for a 150 super 8. Tail light had a brown , green , and blue with y tracer.The blue-y was a brake light and I think brown was parking and the green might be neg not sure.
Hang in there !

[zombie]

Solid green is always ground on Asian scoots. There should be a wiring Diag. in the service manual.?. There is a link to one in the General posting section here. I started it a few years ago, and I believe it is listed under service manuals.

[zombie]

Ps Where did you find the Diag. you refer to. Maybe I can help you make sense of it.

[bilyum]

zombie,
Thanks for the helpful reply...good to know "green is ground" can't say where I found wiring diagram,but it was from a 50 cc not 150.They probably are all wired the same  since they all have same electrical system.
I was installing a brake light modulator. I have completed the task but I used chassis ground,,,it works but I think the green neg would have been better.I am not sure they use chassis ground on scooter.
I am new to this forum and will have to learn more on using it properly.It could be very useful.

thanks

[zombie]

You are fine using the chassis as the engine itself uses the chassis. Do stick around as every question/answer will help another as well.

[Kevin]

Hey Zombie and bilyum,

I have the service manual for the Super 8 50, and you're right bilyum, that wiring diagram is too low a resolution to be legible. So far, the similarities between the manual for the 50, and what I find on my 150, are enough to get me through most everything.

I attached the manual to this post. Not sure how it will show up, but it's a pdf.
Scratch that - it was too big to attach. it looks like there's a 192 KB size limit, and the pdf is 24 MB. Do you know if there's anything that can be done about that?

The problem that brings me back to the forum today is a weak/no spark issue, and after reading what you said zombie, I'm gonna see if I can jump some of the connections and avoid any bad connectors/poor wires. Thanks for the advice!!
and if you don't mind giving the wiring diagram in this pdf a quick look, maybe you can help figure out what to jump where....   

Thanks!
--Kevin

[ddbeek]

Hey Zombie and bilyum,

I have the service manual for the Super 8 50, and you're right bilyum, that wiring diagram is too low a resolution to be legible. So far, the similarities between the manual for the 50, and what I find on my 150, are enough to get me through most everything.

I attached the manual to this post. Not sure how it will show up, but it's a pdf.
Scratch that - it was too big to attach. it looks like there's a 192 KB size limit, and the pdf is 24 MB. Do you know if there's anything that can be done about that?

The problem that brings me back to the forum today is a weak/no spark issue, and after reading what you said zombie, I'm gonna see if I can jump some of the connections and avoid any bad connectors/poor wires. Thanks for the advice!!
and if you don't mind giving the wiring diagram in this pdf a quick look, maybe you can help figure out what to jump where....   

Thanks!
--Kevin

[zombie]

You can compress the pdf w/ 7zip or winrar to post it or email it to me, and I will post the answers. Scratch most of that I just d'loaded 1 What do you need to know?

[bilyum]

Kevin,
I don't know if these scoots use a condenser in the firing of spark plug , but if so that is a place to look .Cheap enough to just replace.
Later

[Kevin]

Thanks Zombie!

I'm trying to figure out two things.

Is the pulser coil working?
is the ignition coil working?

I get a really lame spark, if at all. sometimes it will turn over for a few seconds with no spark, then almost as soon as I let go of the starter button, I'll get a single spark. Fully charged battery reading about 13V.

history:
I've had starting issues for about a month now. replaced spark plug, vacuum petcock, and then after a shop cleaned my carb, it failed again.
last sunday I got it started after a carb (Keihin) and intake (UNI) replacement, rode to my buddy's house who is a KTM mechanic. He helped me dial in the idle sped and fuel mix.
I rode it great for three days (a little hard to keep her idling cold, but once warm, perfect), but thursday morning it wouldn't start, just turns over and over. I get gas to the carb. but really weak/no spark.
Killed the battery trying it. charged the battery, and tried again this morning. nothing. still lame/no spark.

That seems to be the pattern - it will run great for a day or two and then nothing. I ride home with no sputtering or other signs of anything wrong, turn her off, then 10-12 hours later, she wont start at all. eventually somehow I keep getting it started again, only to repeat the pattern.

The high voltage coil has some odd resistance readings, so I'm questioning that. and I can't figure out how to test the pulser, since the manula calls for testing between the blue/yellow and green. there is no green, but I also read here somewhere that green always jsut means ground. I still can't get a decent reading off the pulser. but earlier you mentioned bad wires/loose connections, so I'm trying figure out how I can bypass the wire harness in places to see if it's really a bad coil, or bad connection.
I couldn't get a clear enough picture of the wiring diagram to know what connections to jump.

Do you know if I should be able to read the pulser coil signal while turning it over? I have a multimeter. I can't tell where the pulser coil wire is supposed to go after it comes out of the engine case and into the harness. I'd like to connect it directly to whatever it's supposed to connect to and bypass the harness.

Thanks bilyum for the recommendation about the condenser. I can't see where there might be one, and that wiring diagram is too dang low resolution.

Zombie, does your wiring diagram have a good enough res to read?

Thanks!
--Kevin