Different variators between different Downtown 300i model years

[Cortez]

I started this thread just to try and figure out the differences between the "old" and "new"
variator types in the Downtown between the 2010 and 2012 models.

As far as I've figured out myself, the old variator type is marked 'LEA7'
and the new one 'LGE5'. As the forum user 'juanpauk' staded in another thread,
the difference should be in the roller weight ramps, the newer ones being shorter.

This should result in higher initial revs when you open the throttle up all the way,
and possibly higher cruising revs at lower speeds. This mod is supposedly made to
get rid of some of the vibrations at lower revs.

This newer design is also supposedly used in the People GT300i from day one, and I
can confirm from my test rides of the both that the People GT300i has better acceleration
up to 60mph (by about a second, both bikes stock) even if it's rated about 2hp less.

What I'm trying to figure out is if the the difference can be identified by just riding
the scooter and looking at the revs it will start at at wide open throttle. As we all know, the
"older" type will run at 6000rpm (give or take 50-100) at WOT, and I've seen a video that
suggests the newer type will rev some 500rpm faster.

This is the video I'm talking about:


You can clearly see on a few occasions that the revs will rise to 6500rpms, and the owner says his scooter is stock and that
it'll do 60mph in about 9 seconds. The older DTs take 10,5 to 11 seconds.

To get 6500 rpms at WOT on the older type of CVT, you'd have to swap the stock 15.5gr weights with Dr Pulley 14gr sliders
as TANWare found out and wrote about in a few of his threads.

It would be very nice if we were able to confirm (or find out by VIN number) somehow WHEN this change appeared so
owners would know what parts they have in their scoots. Obviously, doing the 14gr slider mod on the newer CVT type
may result in too much revs through the range, and 15gr might be a wiser choice.

There's also 2 different mallosi aftermarket variators probably because of the same issue, and supposedly you can't fit
both of them but need to find out which fits.

I was wondering if anyone can confirm which part is different from this diagram I got.
These 2 pages are from the same parts catalogue (model number SK60AF) but look the same to me:



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After we figure this out.. maybe we can figure out how to get full 32-33hp out of the 29-30hp models.  

[TANWare]

I know with the LEA7 in the 2011 DT300i the sliders are needed. It very well could be with the new design the 6,500 rpm is already built in so you are good to go. It would be a smart move on Kymco's part to use the full capability of the bike. I don't know though if this will provide a lowr RPM at speed. I have heard the 20x12 sliders do not work with the other variator but as pointed out they may not be needed.

The other issue is the spanish SuperDink has the 32 HP engine. Guess you have to get the bike and try it out but I think you can see the "LEA7" stamped on the bike.................

[juanpauk]

Yuo can apreciate the difference  (ramps space) on these two videos. and I am pretty sure you can not swap them that is why malossi has two versions of it.
LEA7



LGE5 (towards the end of the video)

[juanpauk]

@Cortez

Parts 22110 and 22300 are different from one model to the other, the rest is the same

[Cortez]

I know with the LEA7 in the 2011 DT300i the sliders are needed. It very well could be with the new design the 6,500 rpm is already built in so you are good to go. It would be a smart move on Kymco's part to use the full capability of the bike. I don't know though if this will provide a lowr RPM at speed. I have heard the 20x12 sliders do not work with the other variator but as pointed out they may not be needed.

The other issue is the spanish SuperDink has the 32 HP engine. Guess you have to get the bike and try it out but I think you can see the "LEA7" stamped on the bike.................

Dr Pulley actually confirmed that BOTH variators accept the same 20x12 sliders, so there's no issues there.
They probably just dropped the rollers from 15.5 to 15g but are still the normal round kind. Even with the
15-16gr sliders the new CVT would probably benefit from the upgrade, lowering the revs at higher speeds and
probably even increasing the top speed.

[Cortez]

Cool, nice videos.

[juanpauk]

Yeh, I have the upgraded one and my rev counter will no go further than 7800 no matter what, I know that mine is 29HP not sure if the HP affects the revs (not that technical)

[Cortez]

Yeh, I have the upgraded one and my rev counter will no go further than 7800 no matter what, I know that mine is 29HP not sure if the HP affects the revs (not that technical)

Nah, it doesn't, the one I had for a test ride was the older 2010 model, and I had it rev to 8700rpm once.
You can probably "fix" that with the proper Dr Pulley sliders.. forget about standard round rollers.

[jeryll]

No amount of customization will change the rpm controlled by the ECU. I've manage 8000rpm on a down slope max out at 90mph and that's it and more. I've even swap the original LGE5 with LEA7 variator and the performance are no where near acceptable. From 40km/h the scooter struggle badly to 90km/h. Rpm struggle from 4500rpm and increase slowly to 5500rpm-6000rpm  at around 90km/h if i remember correctly. In other words pre 2012 and 2012 model power and delivery with LEA7 variator are worlds apart in performance.

[TANWare]

Ok, so you are saying the performance is better with the LGE5's over the original LEA7? If so I have a suggestion. That is if the LGE5 uses the same stock 23x12 15.5gr rollers (22.5mm is the stock replacement tolerance).

That is to use the DR. Pulley 20x12 16gr sliders. While this might slightly raise low speed RPM the higher weight and ramp profile of the sliders could reduce high speed and cruise RPM.................

[jeryll]

Then comes the effect of power cut @ 7800rpm.
I managed to go pass the 7800rpm down slope at 8000rpm @ 90mph(144km/h)

I want the original 8500rpm limit!

[Cortez]

No amount of customization will change the rpm controlled by the ECU. I've manage 8000rpm on a down slope max out at 90mph and that's it and more. I've even swap the original LGE5 with LEA7 variator and the performance are no where near acceptable. From 40km/h the scooter struggle badly to 90km/h. Rpm struggle from 4500rpm and increase slowly to 5500rpm-6000rpm  at around 90km/h if i remember correctly. In other words pre 2012 and 2012 model power and delivery with LEA7 variator are worlds apart in performance.

That's interesting.
The 2010 test bike I tried would top out at 8700 rpms, and I've seen 8500 on mine, and
neither did what you described above.

[Cortez]

Then comes the effect of power cut @ 7800rpm.
I managed to go pass the 7800rpm down slope at 8000rpm @ 90mph(144km/h)

I want the original 8500rpm limit!

Power cut @7800 ? What are we talking about here exactly?
The bike has it's maximum power output at 8000.

[jeryll]

In case you do not already know.
Model production from july 2011 onwards with revise full stand and added hazard light option are improved version with lower power and rpm cut @ 7750rpm.
Who would have known an improved version are performing worst off than pre 2012 model.

This should be the official spec circulating around the web for the 2012 model from the Taiwan site.
Then again, for the American or European market may vary but i suspect it should be the same lower powered model as to meet the strict Euro emission standard.

http://www.kymco.com.tw/products/newProduct2010/NIKITA300/standard.html
Scroll all the way down though in chinese you should be able to spot 28ps/7750
Torque 6.7/6500

Those scoot that you tested that are ealier than july 2011 do not count as they are a totally different comparison.
Hope this helps, thanks.

[Cortez]

Yeah, thanks, did not see that.. but I've also ridden a 2012 DT300 and it sure did rev over 8000 without a problem.