Left Turner Almost Got Me

[Vanceman201]

I make it a habit of NOT flashing someone in these circumstances.  I'm in the South (WNC) and it's pretty
common for a cager to flash another cager with the intent of telling you he's giving you the right of way.  In my MSF class...
this was highly discouraged.

[Scooter-IT]

As a European moved to the US I am still surprised about the fact that Americans find the use of turn signals entirely optional :-(

[fshfindr]

I make it a habit of NOT flashing someone in these circumstances.  I'm in the South (WNC) and it's pretty
common for a cager to flash another cager with the intent of telling you he's giving you the right of way.  In my MSF class...
this was highly discouraged.

As a Rider & a cager, why?

[ScooterWolf]

I would agree not to use the flashers at the intersection where a car is either on the left of right, but to use your horn instead while covering your controls -- brakes and ready to ease off the throttle. A horn is always perceived as a warning. Flashers are hard to interpret and their meaning can change from one region to the next, and if taken wrong could lead to an accident.

I've also taught myself not to fixate on one thing for too long. When you're watching that car on your left at an intersection is when you miss that kid on their bike or skateboard (or even a dog) darting across your path on the right. This is extremely true in the city as oppose to a town or in a rural area.

-Wolf

[CommuterScooter]

I like all the discussion on here about this, its eye opening for me and I'm sure others.  Being educated with skills is always the best. 

I understand everybody's point of not using a flash at an intersection and if you are going to signal a horn may be the best option, also at slower speeds that is a good option too.  But what about traveling down roads at a higher speed, say 45+ mph, a horn is not going to be effective a lot of times at those speeds and distance.  Does anybody have a story about how something helping or hurting one way or another?

Maybe I'm just beating a dead horse.

[Hoolander2]

I'm aware that it's a signal for "go ahead of me" in some areas.  In years gone by if I was going to flash high beams I'd do it over and over maybe 8 or 10 times or as many flashes as I could untill passed the situation I was concerned about. Even varying the timing of the flashes.  I figured nobody could misinterpret that.  But just in case they did, I'd slow down too and cover the brakes and horn if possible.  I don't do it that much anymore, maybe because of the discussions here. 

As far as the horn not as effective at higher speeds, you can get a horn that IS lots more audible.  It's on my upgrade list.   

For those of you who haven't read my early posts, I WAS hit by a left turner and my left leg was amputated below the knee as a result!  Have worn artificial leg for 34 years.

[ScooterWolf]

Commuter,

Regarding traveling at higher speed, a good practice is to get into the habit of looking 12 seconds down the road, (or essentially as far as you can see). In other words you need to be fully aware of everything that's around you, but mainly what obstacles and situations are you coming towards. Some people call this rider radar. The idea is to be ready for a situation so that you can approach it with a plan, as oppose to reacting and then needing to use your horn. I can't say it works in all situations, but its allowed me to avoid lots of trouble when I ride.

Another good piece of advice I learned is never ride faster than you can think (or react).

Hoolander -- so sorry to hear about your leg, but if you've been riding with an artificial leg for over 30 years you're a hero in my book.

- Wolf

[ScooterWolf]

Found this post in the Motorcycle safety forum, and though it related to what we've been discussing:


rioguy
Ex-Member

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  8:43 AM                       ï»¿Like

I chose this situation as it is one that causes a lot of crashes which I feel are planned by the rider who fails to compensate for known common errors of other drivers.

It's a fact that if we put ourselves in a position to be left-turned, our probability of being left turned will be some value for N. Say 1 in 100. (Used for an example, and not intended to be accurate.)

We can reduce our probability of being left turned by 50% just by reducing exposure 50%. I think it's possible to reduce exposure by about 90%.

What can we do to reduce exposure?

The first part of the Roadcraft system is information.

Part of the information phase is giving information. Some things one can do to increase visibility. Wear a white helmet. Wear a brightly colored vest. Use high beams. (Don't flash them as it may be taken as a "go" signal.) Auxiliary lighting. Headlight modulators. By looking well ahead, one can usually see a vehicle approaching a position to make a left turn.


Let's call this the completion of the information phase. In my opinion, the critical part of the information phase occurs 12 to 17 seconds before the hazard although it doesn't stop there.

Now on to positioning:

Often, speeding up a bit will get us through the intersection before the vehicle gets in position. Or slowing down creates a space big enough for the vehicle to obviously complete the turn before we get to the intersection. If done early enough, the speed change may only be a few mph.

If there is no hazard to the right and it's otherwise appropriate, moving to the right lane could be a choice. If already in the right lane, be aware the other driver's site line may be blocked. I try to avoid having a big space to my left that the left turner might be tempted to use. I'll either creep forward or drop back so I have a blocker in the intersection.

I haven't mentioned everything there is to know about left-turners. In fact, I've completely skipped the end game. Not that it's not important, but I didn't want to write a book.

Roadcraft is big on assignments. Find a corner where you can observe how motorcycles position themselves for left turners. Make notes on what you observe. A voice recorder is good for this. Or set up a video camera. Sometimes one has to give up riding to do these things.

[CommuterScooter]

Found this post in the Motorcycle safety forum, and though it related to what we've been discussing:


rioguy
Ex-Member

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  8:43 AM                       ï»¿Like

I chose this situation as it is one that causes a lot of crashes which I feel are planned by the rider who fails to compensate for known common errors of other drivers.

It's a fact that if we put ourselves in a position to be left-turned, our probability of being left turned will be some value for N. Say 1 in 100. (Used for an example, and not intended to be accurate.)

We can reduce our probability of being left turned by 50% just by reducing exposure 50%. I think it's possible to reduce exposure by about 90%.

What can we do to reduce exposure?

The first part of the Roadcraft system is information.

Part of the information phase is giving information. Some things one can do to increase visibility. Wear a white helmet. Wear a brightly colored vest. Use high beams. (Don't flash them as it may be taken as a "go" signal.) Auxiliary lighting. Headlight modulators. By looking well ahead, one can usually see a vehicle approaching a position to make a left turn.


Let's call this the completion of the information phase. In my opinion, the critical part of the information phase occurs 12 to 17 seconds before the hazard although it doesn't stop there.

Now on to positioning:

Often, speeding up a bit will get us through the intersection before the vehicle gets in position. Or slowing down creates a space big enough for the vehicle to obviously complete the turn before we get to the intersection. If done early enough, the speed change may only be a few mph.

If there is no hazard to the right and it's otherwise appropriate, moving to the right lane could be a choice. If already in the right lane, be aware the other driver's site line may be blocked. I try to avoid having a big space to my left that the left turner might be tempted to use. I'll either creep forward or drop back so I have a blocker in the intersection.

I haven't mentioned everything there is to know about left-turners. In fact, I've completely skipped the end game. Not that it's not important, but I didn't want to write a book.

Roadcraft is big on assignments. Find a corner where you can observe how motorcycles position themselves for left turners. Make notes on what you observe. A voice recorder is good for this. Or set up a video camera. Sometimes one has to give up riding to do these things.

Thank you ScooterWolf for this article.  Knowledge is power and this thread has been informative. 

[blue]

mopeds motorcycles should stay back at leased 1 full car length I know I keep my distance.
there are times when I wish I had a sign on the back that says back off.Things happen you can never be to carefull.

[CommuterScooter]

there are times when I wish I had a sign on the back that says back off.Things happen you can never be to carefull.

I met a Harley guy who said he keeps a pocket full of small ball bearings and flicks them over his shoulder when people tailgate him. 

[blue]

I met a Harley guy who said he keeps a pocket full of small ball bearings and flicks them over his shoulder when people tailgate him. 

Dont give me any ideas lol its to bad road rage is against the law here. its big time jail time.

[fshfindr]

Ok,Ok, I'm convinced, flashing may not be a good thing since it can certainly be misinterpreted.  Today is beginning to look like a very nice day for riding.  So no flashing, but Scooterwolf, I can't follow your suggestion to go no faster than I can think.  At 5 MPH I won't get very far.

Richard L.

[ScooterWolf]

Heheh -- Fsh, I'd say stop looking at the speedometer and just drive!

I've heard of people talk about tossing ball bearings, nuts and bolts over their shoulders at tailgaters, but wouldn't they expect the now pissed off driver to ram into them from behind? In a contest against a car, no motorcycle or scooter is going to win.

Also in this day and age of cell phone cameras one could easily get a pic of your license plate to pass onto the cops for tossing something that could damage or hurt another driver. If you're going to get pissed off at a driver, do it while you're behind them. You'll have more control over your own safety.

[CommuterScooter]

I agree with you ScooterWolf, not a smart idea to do. But it still puts a smile on my face thinking about it. I'll leave it to the hardcore Harley guys to do stuff like that.  With my hi-vis jacket I'd never be able to lose them in a crowd.