DId you purchase new from dealer? Question:Freight Charge?

[jwalz1]

I am looking at a new Yager, this is from a large local scooter dealer who lists the price of the scooter at full retail price of $3500.  On the price tag there is an asterisk that lists the "out the door price" much higher.  It includes TTL and has a $300 charge for freight to get the scooter from the manufacturer much like the delivery charge on a new auto. 

Is this typical of your experience with your local scooter dealer and Kymco or is this dealer profit padding or a negotiating ploy? 

Thanks for your help in advance.

John

[axy]

Don't worry about price structure.

Just take care of the end result.

[fshfindr]

It came to $4200 for my $3200 Yager wich I picked up.

[Wil B.]

I paid about $3600.00 out-the-door for my Yager (incl taxes, etc.) in March 2011.   It was on the dealer floor listed at $2,999.00.

Wil B.
Broadview, IL

'71 Guzzi Ambassador
'91 Nighthawk
'04 Kymco Super 9
'10 Yager 200 gt

[jwalz1]

Sounds to me then like it is a dealer add on.  And Wil, you got a heck of a deal.  

I see a couple new old stock 2010's too far away from me listed for $2,800.  My dealer then in effect wants $3800 for a list price $3500 machine.  I suppose I will offer about $3k for a new 2012 TOTAL, and be willing to go as high as $3200.  A few hundred off sticker sounds reasonable enough to me considering all the dealer has to do is order it and do minor prep to make several hundred if not over $1000 on me for about an hour worth of effort.  

If you are limited to stock on hand and have a limited quantity I can see them being insistant on their margin, but if you can order all you can sell I suppose they can either make a customer or not.  

[jprestonian]

And people wonder why there aren't so many scooter shops, tsk-tsk. I hope if you have a favorite, you stop looking at these things as being some scheme to rip you off, or you're likely to have one less, quite soon.

Yes, Kymco charges the dealer almost $300 freight/scooter unless they've purchased and had delivered a large shipment at one time, which most shops do not (CANnot) do, anymore. Yes, their mechanic is going to spend at least an hour (and in some cases, up to three), uncrating, prepping and test-riding that new scooter to make sure it's in roadworthy condition.

What's more, for those dealers who aren't sitting on bales of cash, most of them get the scooters on the floor through a floor plan -- that's short-term financing, where they pay the vig monthly to have each bike sitting there for untold months, waiting for you to decide you want it. Every month, their profit drops $50-60/bike, but what do you care?  You just want the best deal, and really don't want the shop to stay in business, right?
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[axy]

And people wonder why there aren't so many scooter shops, tsk-tsk. I hope if you have a favorite, you stop looking at these things as being some scheme to rip you off, or you're likely to have one less, quite soon.

Yes, Kymco charges the dealer almost $300 freight/scooter unless they've purchased and had delivered a large shipment at one time, which most shops do not (CANnot) do, anymore. Yes, their mechanic is going to spend at least an hour (and in some cases, up to three), uncrating, prepping and test-riding that new scooter to make sure it's in roadworthy condition.

What's more, for those dealers who aren't sitting on bales of cash, most of them get the scooters on the floor through a floor plan -- that's short-term financing, where they pay the vig monthly to have each bike sitting there for untold months, waiting for you to decide you want it. Every month, their profit drops $50-60/bike, but what do you care?  You just want the best deal, and really don't want the shop to stay in business, right?
.

JP, NHF, but customers are not a part of social care network. They care only about getting the best service/product that at the best possible price.

For example, I work as a consultant. Nobody cares that my work may take months, that I have to show up few hundred kms away if the client calls me, that I have to pay for the car, gas, phone and postage before I finally get paid (few months after I complete my contractual work).

Simply, business is not a social cause. Personally, I could not care less about shop staying in business or how much they pay for the shipping. If they go bust, I will go to another shop or choose another brand.

Those who do not understand that should not open a scooter dealership, they should start a scooter club as a hobby.

[ts1]

Yes, Kymco charges the dealer almost $300 freight/scooter unless they've purchased and had delivered a large shipment at one time, which most shops do not (CANnot) do, anymore. Yes, their mechanic is going to spend at least an hour (and in some cases, up to three), uncrating, prepping and test-riding that new scooter to make sure it's in roadworthy condition.

What's the difference with water, bread or electricity? Do you pay additional freight for peanuts or petroleum?
Kymco/MSA Germany prices are with delivery and tax etc. - buy and take. Imho that's a matter of honesty.

BTW: honest price labelling - although higher than in US - does not really decrease the number of scooter shops. Compare Italy, France, Germany & Co with US.

[axy]

What's the difference with water, bread or electricity? Do you pay additional freight for peanuts or petroleum?
Kymco/MSA Germany prices are with delivery and tax etc. - buy and take. Imho that's a matter of honesty.

BTW: honest price labelling - although higher than in US - does not really decrease the number of scooter shops. Compare Italy, France, Germany & Co with US.

There is a big psychological story behind vehicle sales in USA.

In Europe, car salesmen have different approach than over there. We have even had a case study of American car sale during our commercial negotiation course in the company I work for.

Basically, the goal is to trick you into paying more by allegedly giving you extras, options etc.

Like I said, I could not care less about their freight charge, surcharge, hyper charge, cost of living, variable cost, charity cost etc.

I am only interested in the end result.

However, people if they are conditioned in that direction, think differently, and these sales tactics do pay off. They say, especially with women.

[Wil B.]

Just to clarify my previous post, the Yager I purchased in March 2011 was a 2010 model for $2,999.00 and the dealer had 3 on the showroom floor at that price.   Yes, it was a great deal, but I would haver paid $4000 OTD if necessary.  The Yager is a good deal even at the list price feature to feature compared to the competition.

Of course, if you have more than 1 dealer in the area, you can shop around.  Here in the Chicago area, there are 3-4 dealers at least who carry Kymcos, but most just stock the smaller 50-150cc scoots.

Wil B.
Broadview, IL

[jwalz1]

And people wonder why there aren't so many scooter shops, tsk-tsk. I hope if you have a favorite, you stop looking at these things as being some scheme to rip you off, or you're likely to have one less, quite soon.

Yes, Kymco charges the dealer almost $300 freight/scooter unless they've purchased and had delivered a large shipment at one time, which most shops do not (CANnot) do, anymore. Yes, their mechanic is going to spend at least an hour (and in some cases, up to three), uncrating, prepping and test-riding that new scooter to make sure it's in roadworthy condition.

What's more, for those dealers who aren't sitting on bales of cash, most of them get the scooters on the floor through a floor plan -- that's short-term financing, where they pay the vig monthly to have each bike sitting there for untold months, waiting for you to decide you want it. Every month, their profit drops $50-60/bike, but what do you care?  You just want the best deal, and really don't want the shop to stay in business, right?
.

I think you misunderstand where I am coming from.  This product will be a toy for me.  I would be surprised if I ride it a few hundred miles a year.  It is not worth that much to me, and another dealer has 2009 fuel injected CF Moto 150's (which I get lots of very positive reviews from owners) brand new for $1500.   NO shipping charge.  It is not as nice as the Yager, it does not suit my needs as much as the Yager.  I prefer the Yager.  There is a price point which I am willing to pay, which is less than MSRP for the machine, but more than double the price of my second choice.  I could pick up one or TWO of the others and be happy and have an extra for friends to come over and go for a ride.

If the dealer can order as many as he wants,  and he puts in an order, does a little dealer prep but does not get every penny of MSRP plus $300, that is fine with me.  I will sleep well at night  He can decide if say, a $1000 profit is enough, or perhaps he would prefer nothing instead. Happy customers are repeat customers. If I leave and go somewhere else, I will still sleep well at night.  I would like to support the local guy and do business with him, but the fact of the matter is, the Kymco dealer 50 miles from me DOES NOT WANT TO ADD A $300 shipping charge.  So an hour drive and a $20 Uhaul and my business could go elsewhere. Easily.

I don't wish to screw the guy, I'd prefer to come to a mutually beneficial agreement and be a loyal customer.  But on this particular deal, I am not going to be the max profit guy.  Let the person who is really into scooters and feels like it is a great price to come in and spend the extra.  A financial transaction is one that each person feels like they are getting something more of value in the exchange.  That means the price a person is willing to pay for a product will be different for everybody.  I am not asking the guy to fashion a scooter on an anvil out of raw steel, I am asking him to place an order for me, have his mechanic prep it and make probably a grand off of me for something I am buying as a once in a while toy.  I am not going to commute on it, the route is too dangerous.  He is not selling me his last one, he is just calling Kymco and saying, "I'll take one more in black please."

And lets say I can get one for $2800 if I bargain the heck out of the guy and make him scrape by with the minimum.  I am not going to do that either.  I'd like to see the guy make his profit and am still willing to go as high as $3200.  But lets not get too greedy at my expense because I don't want it badly enough to go higher.

[jprestonian]

What's the difference with water, bread or electricity? Do you pay additional freight for peanuts or petroleum?

Of course you do. What you are recommending is that the dealer hide that cost in the final price of the scooter, while trying to explain to the customer why the price is $300 higher than MSRP.
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[jprestonian]

Those who do not understand that should not open a scooter dealership, they should start a scooter club as a hobby.

Unless you are doing above $1M in volume annually, you really shouldn't even try to operate a scooter shop in the U.S. You'd make more money in T-bills. That's why the prosperous shops don't just sell scooters -- they sell lots more motorcycles, personal watercraft, ATVs, et al.

Scooters are not a high-volume business in the U.S. Margins have to account for overhead (labor, rent, power, water, trash collection/recycling, numerous local licensing and inspections), or you have what you see today: Less scooter shops, and many, many struggling scooter shops, including some of the most popular ones in the country (like Sportique).

Of course, there will always be eBay bargains, so rest easy.
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[axy]

Unless you are doing above $1M in volume annually, you really shouldn't even try to operate a scooter shop in the U.S. You'd make more money in T-bills. That's why the prosperous shops don't just sell scooters -- they sell lots more motorcycles, personal watercraft, ATVs, et al.

The world is a globalized place, so basic laws of economy are equally applicable pretty much everywhere.
Competition on the market is fierce and situation is the same here.
No car dealership is able to survive by selling cars either. Motorcycles, scoots - the same.

The margins are very low, for cars and motorcycles it's between 10 and 12 %, sometimes as low as 5 %.
Dealers are selling vehicles to get customers that will buy spare parts, pay for repair and damage repair down the road.
Much migher margins are on additional car/motorcycle equipment, so they are pushing additional stuff as much as they can.

It's not something special related only to vehicle industry. It is not much better in other sales branches either.
Take a look at computer hardware and general electronics... They work for pennies, literally...

[DoubleSC]

Of course you do. What you are recommending is that the dealer hide that cost in the final price of the scooter, while trying to explain to the customer why the price is $300 higher than MSRP.
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I see nothing wrong with that - at least I know what I can expect to pay out of pocket at a glance.   They can break down the details later if need be.    Perhaps the whole MSRP could be adjusted, or the concept of MSRP eliminated entirely as no one probably pays MSRP as an out the door price anyway.

The problem is that the dealers typically proudly advertise their "low" prices without taxes and surcharges, then once a customer is in the door then  mention "and oh, by the way, your final cost is actually a little higher because of shipping, and freight/prep, and ...".  For those of us that have previous experience with playing this game, we know to expect that dealers will do this, so we know a little bit about what to expect, and it's less of a problem.  For new customers, it's a put off...customers really don't care what their cost of business is - they want to know their final out of pocket costs.