This is what Ethanol does to rubber...

[zombie]

I took this pict. just for the forum. It is of a fuel proof carburetor coupler. The fella's scoot has been droping off in both top sprrd, and low end torque. Local dealer cleaned the carb. / installed a new fuel filter / new spark plug, and after a test ride told MY new customer he needed a new cylinder/piston/rings. Charged him $187.63, and estimated 375-400.00 to replace the top end for him.
On his way home I saw him at the gas station, and volunteered to "take a look". I did not even have to remove the carb. to feel the softness in the coupler. 15 minuets later he was running. Point is ETHANOL should be banned, and consumers refunded for all the MILLIONS of $'s in damages to OUR vehicles.

[axy]

http://www.dupontelastomers.com/crg/tlargiguide.asp

Select gasoline from the menu on the left and then select ethyl alcohol.

Much more rubber compounds are completely incompatible with ethyl alcohol and more of them show higher lever of incompatibility than rubber/gasoline combination.

I think that we should dispel myths on this forum.

[jprestonian]

axy: +1
.

[Shaka]

Wow!!!  Felt I had to actually post these tables...

[zombie]

Ok Here we go! If you ask the tobacco company if smoking is harmful they will refer you to their chart too. Every maker of fuel proof rubber COMPOUNDS are using Nitrile as the stabilizer. Ethanol dissolves the polymeric chain that binds nitrile to rubber. It is one thing to spout off on the forum cause someone dis agrees w/ you, but another to custom pick your evidence.  I know you are a smart guy, but I work w/ these products EVERY DAY. All of the marine manufactures are producing fuel line that have a plastic liner that is impervious to ethanol. I just showed you a photo of what it does, or was that from a 50cc scoot so highly modified it sucked the inside of the coupler out. Don't ask the Vatican if molesting exists in parishes. Ask the parents of the children. Don't ask Dupont if ethanol sucks. Ask a mechanic. Oh wait... Does your company have something to do w/ ethanol Manuf./supply? I'm sure not trying to offend but am DAMN pissed about the sh** we as consumers are forced to swallow. Ps. Look at Hilary Clinton... N.Y. Senate? And whats that job she has now? Who the F' is she by the way...

[zombie]

One pack of Menthol cigarettes has more anti oxidants than (1) apple. True or false?    Well then they MUST be good too.

[jprestonian]

One pack of Menthol cigarettes has more anti oxidants than (1) apple. True or false?    Well then they MUST be good too.

And the reason all my seals, etc. are okay after five years of indiscriminate fuel usage is... what?
.

[zombie]

They use Unicorn pee pee in the fuel where you live. I live in Florida where the ethanol levels are 10% year round. The marinas here were forced into getting non E fuel do to "chronic deterioration" of fuel system components. This is due to the long term "stationary" exposer. To aggravate that factor add almost constant 3/4-wot operation of marine engines. These two extremes combine to create an environment that amplifies the effect of ethanol. It is the same for any high out put engine. The required quality of fuel is greater than the lower powered counterparts that CAN run on Unicorn piss! Whether it affects you or not is a different issue... Same goes for Global Warming. I see it every day. I just showed you picts. I will send you the results of a lab test if you like, (your paypal tho) It don't really matter to me cause SEA FOAM has made me ~IMPERVIOUSSSSSSS~
Mass Iridium toALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[ts1]

Every fuel is potentially aggressive to some materials.
And there have always been material failures due to long exposition under severe conditions.
It's the manucfacturers responsibility to provide vehicles which can run on legal fuel.

[axy]

You seem to be hurt because science says different than your personal, subjective opinion.

I cannot change your opinion, it would be futile, you are free to believe anything you choose to, including pink unicorns, Buddha and Evil Ethanol.

However, just to add to this discussion if you did not understand already, what you call "rubber" can actually be hundreds if not thousands of different chemical compounds with different properties and resistance to influence of other compound. Some might be completely unaffected, while some might be incompatible with ethanol, while generally, gasoline is more corrosive to "rubber like" compounds than ethanol. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

Vehicle tire rubber for example deteriorates exposed to oxygen in air so that it has to be discarded after 60 months because it dangerously changes its properties. Claiming that rubber like compounds used in and around vehicle engine, exposed daily to extreme engine temperature, various elements like fuel, oil, dust, water and dirt, change of external temperature from -20 to +60 in the summer - change their properties ONLY because of ethanol in fuel (5-15 % of total fuel volume) is twisting the facts at best, or being a poor analyst of underlying causes of issues.

I have no better source than sources based on real empirical data and science.

So, you are left to yourself to believe what you want.

[juice]

[zombie]

I 100% agree w/ you Axy. Different compounds react differently. I have a set of Kenda tires that swelled like balloons when exposed to raw fuel. (spilled gas). Fuel system compounds are different. They are made to tolerate petroleum products. Ethanol is not a petroleum product.  If you like facts chew on these...
http://www.bertram31.com/bb/bbs.cgi?noframes;read=78171
http://uscgaux-northlake.com/archives/1542
http://www.espbotanicals.com/environmentalpoison/2011/09/26/nj-doh-senior-svcs-report-on-2-butoxy-ethanol-in-corexit/
http://www.ourbetternature.org/ethanol.htm
Just a few. By the way... WAKE UP! I don't care what you think about this problem as it has no effect on you but others need to know what is happening to their beloved engines. By the way... Are you suggesting that the world is now plagued w/ "weak rubber"? Self dissolving aluminum? Oh the humanity... When will it stop. Simply google ethanol problems.

[zombie]

I should state that I have no issues w/ any other opinion or member of this forum. We all exist for a reason, and or opinions are an important tool for learning. I work w/ the effects of fuels all day every day. This alone qualifies me to report on the ethanol issue.I would not ask an accountant how to launch/build a rocket any more than I would ask a short order cook for a brain transplant! I am a mechanic/boat builder. This is what I do.

[ts1]

Fuel system compounds are different. They are made to tolerate petroleum products. Ethanol is not a petroleum product.

There may be fuel systems which are not compatible, esp. if the vehicle isn't used for months and years without any maintenance and precautions.

But for example BMW motorcycle claims, that every of their motorcycles is E10 compatible (with correct octane rating), no matter how old. Do you work on their motorcycles and know they are wrong?

[axy]

I should state that I have no issues w/ any other opinion or member of this forum. We all exist for a reason, and or opinions are an important tool for learning. I work w/ the effects of fuels all day every day. This alone qualifies me to report on the ethanol.

It does not, because you are not dealing with ethanol under controlled laboratory conditions that would require an experimental and control group, and statistically significant sample.

You are dealing with gasoline, which is a mixture of 500 different hydrocarbons, each of them exerting specific influence on another compound ("rubber")
Then, you are dealing with environment that has very high temperature.
Then, environment that changes temperature quickly within set extremes (from -20 to 150 C in a matter of minutes)
Then, you are dealing with oxygen infusion.
Then, you are dealing with compound whose chemical composition you do not know.
Then, you are dealing with "dirt".
Then, you are dealing with mechanical damage "rubber" parts are typically exposed to (they are "bolted" on metal and usually stretched, or connect heterogeneous materials).

The fact that you are dealing with engines does not make you a specialist in organic chemistry or a scientist.
Somebody who is dealing with servers daily is not a computer programmer.
Surgeon is not a God.
My cats are carnivores but they are not butchers.
etc.

The key questions here is why are you being stubborn about this topic despite presented facts (and not subjective opinions)?