Author Topic: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...  (Read 24006 times)

axy

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2012, 04:48:02 PM »
YES. As does StarTron.  And they both come in flavors even children love... No worries about residual anger. I love my Bro's here. F' the Hooidie tooidies tho... I'm not much for hand warmers as a "mod".    Sorry Axy!
http://mystarbrite.com/startron/
http://www.seafoamsales.com/

« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 04:50:01 PM by axy »
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juice

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2012, 08:31:02 PM »
Rocket J. Squirrel: And now, here to tell you everything about anything is Mr. Know-It-All.

axy

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2012, 10:26:12 PM »
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zombie

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2012, 12:58:15 AM »

Piss off you buggers!     Jealousseee!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

old geezer

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2012, 09:04:00 PM »
Well my Cub Cadet lawn tractor just turned 16 years old and has had 10% ethanol gas in it from day one. I leave it in there all winter. It always starts and runs ok in the spring. It has ALL the orginal rubber fuel lines and hoses. None of them have deteriorated. Must be magic..... :o

Oh yeah, it started running hot this past summer so I checked out the fuel system to make sure it wasn't running lean. I took the ALUMINUM carb off and dissembled it. Clean as a pin, no corrosion or trash in the bowl.

Turned out to be a bunch of leaves blocking the trans fan.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 10:23:39 PM by scooterdude »

zombie

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2012, 10:49:31 PM »
http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=636
Please dont look at the pictures. READ. Scootdude, There was NO eth. gas 16 years ago. Not in the US anyway. Here's another FACT: Eth. is a LESS efficient fuel, and requires larger quantiles to create the same power. With me so far? When you add 10% E. to gasoline it dilutes the gasoline. Still w/ me? You are now running your engine LEAN. Not the full 10% lean cause E. does have some power. But approx. 6% leaner. On a tiny HIGH output engine that alone = death to the engine. Still w/ me? Adding decomposing aluminum to the equation, and bits of rubber welllllll!
I see NO ONE has taken my BET! My scoot valued at approx. $3,000.00 against ANYTHING of value. Of course your damn little mower works. It is 5hp, and 3,000 rpm's at best. Ever see a top fuel dragster run on 10% E. fuel? Or a GP PRO bike? Or anything for that matter besides the average engine? I posted this for the PERFORMANCE minded people as it applies to us. Not the average motorist that has sooooo much leeway built into their engines to handle a little E.
I only wish you Nay sayers would research your FACTS. The only thing you are doing is wasting learning time, and MAYBE hurting another's PERFORMANCE engine w/ your OPINION.    I've said it before, and I'll say it again    PISS OFF!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2012, 10:52:50 PM »
Since I KNOW none of you took the time to learn... Here is an exert from the above link.  I think this is #13 or so (links)
The team split into two groups: a fuel system modification team and an engine modification team. They faced several challenges in converting the car to run on E-85, a blend of 85 percent ethanol derived from corn. Ethanol corrodes rubber, steel and aluminum - the entire fuel system had to be changed. The team also faced a fuel-efficiency problem. E-85 is one-and-a-half times less efficient than gasoline. Last but not least, they needed to solve the issue of cold-starting. Ethanol has a hard time igniting the engine at temperatures below 30 degrees F.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2012, 10:53:11 PM »
Putz's
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

old geezer

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2012, 02:21:59 AM »
We have had ethanol gas here for 20 years........My cub cadet is over head valve and is 20 HP and shaft driven.

Oh yeah I have been working on engines since 1958....and probably forgot more than you think you know.

http://ag.utah.gov/divisions/regulatory/documents/E10%20report%20051910.pdf

Ethanol has been added to gasoline since the late 1970s and since that time, the
U.S. fuel grade ethanol production capacity has grown to an estimated 9 billion
gallons per year. Until the late 1980s, ethanol’s primary role in the fuels market was
that of an octane enhancer and it was viewed as an environmentally sound
alternative to the use of lead in gasoline. With its 112.5 blending octane
value(R+M/2), ethanol continues to be one of the most economic octane enhancers
available to the refiner or fuel blender.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:42:25 AM by scooterdude »

zombie

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2012, 02:47:20 AM »
TRUE Scooterdudet. Still not the point tho. My grandma has been changing diaper since before you were born. That does not mean she has been doing it every day for 60 years! I won awards in High School for re designing engines to run on everything from Benzine to turpentine, and HAVE been working on engines ever since. How many racing titles/awards do you have... what was that ?    ZERO     it shows Bro ett.     Ps how's the Eth powered Yugo coming along.... what was that?   ZERO.

Stick to the point, and I'll show a bit more respect!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

ts1

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2012, 09:52:56 AM »
Ever see a top fuel dragster run on 10% E. fuel? Or a GP PRO bike? Or anything for that matter besides the average engine? I posted this for the PERFORMANCE minded people as it applies to us.
Yes!
Ethanol is a well known race fuel. High octane, good inner cooling.
Especially E10 fuel was used by Audi Union and Mercedes Benz in their famous "Silberpfeil": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Arrows

And there is another game which the "US highest technology" sleeps away: Biofuel was successfully introduced 2011 by Lufthansa with an Airbus A321 in commercial aero line operation. Not the E10 fuel for cars with otto engines but a 50% bio kerosene: http://www.aviationbrief.com/?p=2615

This kind of "European PERFORMANCE voodoo" is enough for my mediocre scooter purposes.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 10:14:53 AM by ts1 »

thebatman

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2012, 12:16:16 PM »
I for one believe Ethonal SUCKS....
We are suppose to be eating the fkn corn, not trying to drive with it.
Of course to back zombie up even your HERO ol Al Gore now believes the ethonal was a a waste of time, almost a big of a  waste as this "global warming".
My scooter runs ALOT fkn diffeent with these sorry ass eth stations. IF you can find one with better fuel, try out and see for your self. I can dam sure tell a difference in performance and over all running, just as when i use "mid grade" (89 here) IT SUCKS....
I am surprised that the liberal minds here are even riding a scooter and not walking or on a bicycle these days... :D
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axy

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2012, 07:30:34 PM »
http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=636
Please dont look at the pictures. READ. Scootdude, There was NO eth. gas 16 years ago. Not in the US anyway. Here's another FACT: Eth. is a LESS efficient fuel, and requires larger quantiles to create the same power. With me so far? When you add 10% E. to gasoline it dilutes the gasoline. Still w/ me? You are now running your engine LEAN. Not the full 10% lean cause E. does have some power. But approx. 6% leaner.

If the carb is adjusted with certain fuel being predominantly used, there is no reason why the engine would run lean.
Actually, considering that most scoot carbs are set a bit to the rich side, it seems that from mixture point of view, using ethanol infused fuel might actually IMPROVE the mixture compared to "factory" setting using non-ethanol fuel.
Facts have to be carefully evaluated and interpreted and then one come to surprising results, as you can see.

On a tiny HIGH output engine that alone = death to the engine.

Tiny and death are not scientific facts. Also, there is no reason why absolute engine output would be highly correlated with increased damage probability.
Furthermore, it would not be possible to prove that all this causes "death to the engine".

Still w/ me?

Barely, even you look like you lost yourself a bit.  ;D

Adding decomposing aluminum to the equation, and bits of rubber welllllll!

"Rubber" has been commented sufficiently.

If one studies this topic sufficiently, he might found out that aluminum corrosion starts being an issue at ratio 85 % ethanol - 15 % gasoline, so there are modifications neccessary if you plan to run your engine on such a mixture. It might be of concern if you import American or European car in South America and plan to run it on their 85 % ethanol fuel.

It is 5hp, and 3,000 rpm's at best.

This is not argument. Not even close.

Ever see a top fuel dragster run on 10% E. fuel? Or a GP PRO bike?

Last time I checked, dragsters primarily ran on nitromethane and not gasoline.
Actually, there are many racing fuels that are 85 % or 98 % ethanol.
There are even teams competing in hot rod and dragster leagues (sorry, I am not American, so I do not know exact divisions) with 98 % ethanol fuel.
I suggest that you do a bit of additional learning on this topic, with your mind open to new facts.

Or anything for that matter besides the average engine?

Yes. As stated previously.


I posted this for the PERFORMANCE minded people as it applies to us. Not the average motorist that has sooooo much leeway built into their engines to handle a little E.
I only wish you Nay sayers would research your FACTS. The only thing you are doing is wasting learning time, and MAYBE hurting another's PERFORMANCE engine w/ your OPINION.    I've said it before, and I'll say it again    PISS OFF!

While you are at it, you might also find out that modern engines actually develop MORE power running on ethanol fuel with better torque curve.
I know for a fact that Volvo passenger cars for South American markets that run on 85 % ethanol have more power than the same car running on gasoline. The same engine.
I will not post links or waste my time, if you want to increase your knowledge, be my guest.

Why are you so nervous?
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juice

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 09:33:25 PM »

axy

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Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2012, 10:38:34 PM »
I for one believe Ethonal SUCKS....
We are suppose to be eating the fkn corn, not trying to drive with it.
Of course to back zombie up even your HERO ol Al Gore now believes the ethonal was a a waste of time, almost a big of a  waste as this "global warming".
My scooter runs ALOT fkn diffeent with these sorry ass eth stations. IF you can find one with better fuel, try out and see for your self. I can dam sure tell a difference in performance and over all running, just as when i use "mid grade" (89 here) IT SUCKS....
I am surprised that the liberal minds here are even riding a scooter and not walking or on a bicycle these days... :D

Well, South American countries are energy-self- sufficient because of ethanol used as fuel. And only them, in the whole wide world.

USA is oil importer and not exporter, hence inherent need for wars in order to meet growing energy demands for fossil fuels. Yesterday it was Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia and Libya, today it is Syria, tomorrow it will be Iraq, directly or through proxies.

Perhaps it would be better to drive on corn and not have homeless veterans in the streets and graves full of 20-something year old people "fighting for freedom".

I would not, btw., endorse growing food for fuel either as it causes famine in the long run.
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