Author Topic: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...  (Read 24148 times)

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #90 on: February 17, 2012, 08:45:58 AM »
That's the point Axy! If ethanol were NOT in the fuel water would NOT be attracted to it.  Here I'll type it for you...
Zombie is correct. "Ethanol does create issues with some engines/fuel systems due to it "nature". These are problems that would not exist if ethanol were removed/replaced." All you have to do is cut, and paste.  You KNOW you wanna... We all know you should. It will only sting FOREVER!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

ts1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #91 on: February 17, 2012, 09:10:11 AM »
Some amount of water is in every fuel - already from the refinery. Ethanol may attract even more. And any temperature change adds more to a tank esp. in cold-wet North Europe (store your vehicle with full tank to minimize air exchange!). All our vehicles with combustion engine are white smokers (steam) on the first kilometres. Engineers should (and usually do) take care anyway.

Water in the fuel may be added on purpose too. Especially for (diesel) trains and (otto or gas engine) aeroplanes. While there are difficulties with phase segregation and an second tank isn't desirable, the combustion becomes cleaner (less NOx) and compression can be higher.

axy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2210
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #92 on: February 17, 2012, 10:08:52 AM »
That's the point Axy! If ethanol were NOT in the fuel water would NOT be attracted to it.  

I am afraid that water is present also in gasoline, and ON PURPOSE.

Gasoline is corrosive agent, in my country it is classified as corrosive agent Class 1. According to ISO standard regulating this area, this means that it corrodes copper material after 3 hours of exposure at temperature of 50 C.

Small addition of water to gasoline AND ethanol creates natural film of oxidation on the surface of aluminum alloy materials used in engines. This natural film then protects the material from further degradation and corrosive influence of gasoline and, to a smaller extent, OH- ions from ethanol.

Of course, there is a clear delimiter between desired volume of water in gasoline and undesired one. I do not have that information at hand.

I have been following articles in newspapers dealing with gasoline quality tests in my country. Gasoline exiting rafineries is produced according to the highest specs. The problem occurs during transport and storage. Small gas stations are saving money on tank cleaning and drainage processing and have lower turnover of gasoline. They often deal with smaller transport companies that provide service at lower cost but also save on cleaning truck tanks. The end result is dirt and water in gasoline, not in dramatic quantities, but significant and measurable. I would say the same logic applies to ethanol infused fuels and would be willing to bet that much bigger problem for those who use them is fuel quality control and sourcing than 10 % ethanol fuel by itself.

Also, I remind once again, we have 5 % ethanol fuel here (all fuels) and nobody every mentions ethanol as a source of issues. In fact, if you asked any driver do they know that gasoline contains ethanol AT ALL, the answer would be negative. This is simply not a topic here, it is a "non-issue".
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 07:39:55 PM by axy »
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #93 on: February 17, 2012, 06:55:15 PM »
Water in the fuel may be added on purpose too. Especially for (diesel) trains and (otto or gas engine) aeroplanes. While there are difficulties with phase segregation and an second tank isn't desirable, the combustion becomes cleaner (less NOx) and compression can be higher.
Now you just lost your mind... If you wish to remain UN-affronted, DROP THE ANTIQUATED SCIENCE!

Small addition of water to gasoline AND ethanol creates natural film of oxidation on the surface of aluminum alloy materials used in engines. This natural film then protects the material from further degradation and corrosive influence of gasoline and, to a smaller extent, OH- ions from ethanol.
Two down. NONE TO GO!

Seven pages to reach a consensus... Or does admission of MY original sound better?  Peace, and good will to all! ('cept Ts... Cry to mommy big boy)
Ok... Ts also I guess~
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2012, 07:03:31 PM »
By the way Ts... Those are some of the same disadvantages I told you about, Now you want to debate them as yours? Someone owes me a scoot!
Wheres my Money Stewie & Brian (Hd)
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

ts1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2012, 07:47:17 PM »
Those are some of the same disadvantages I told you about, Now you want to debate them as yours?
Neither mine nor yours. ;) Ethanol is a little bit different from petrol (but not as much as diesel) and manageable (not as difficult as diesel).
You are right with many basic facts about Ethanol, but Nikolaus Otto could manage it 150 years ago and mankind can still manage it - at least outside the USA - and not to forget in US-California too!

blue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3935
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #96 on: February 17, 2012, 10:43:17 PM »
good think gas tanks are not made of rubber.

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #97 on: February 18, 2012, 12:13:08 AM »
LUV you guys!!!    There is alot of info on this thread. I hope it helps...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

thebatman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2432
  • The Bat lives on... like the fkn Energizer Bunny
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #98 on: February 18, 2012, 02:47:01 AM »
TGB (taiwans golden bee) have made some decent stuff, alot better than other makes. I haven't owned one yet but thats what i heard and read about them from experiance and not the ad.  ;D
"THE BAT"MAN...
Says:
"A goal without a plan is just a dream"......

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2012, 04:13:43 AM »
I "tuned one up" for some couple that saw mine... It is an impressive scoot. It rides real small tho. More so than an Ag. Still real nice parts. Not made in America tho...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #100 on: February 18, 2012, 04:20:43 AM »
AAAnnnddd, Not to throw salt around... Their main problem was the Carb. bowl gasket was disintegrating. They drooped the scoot in a minor accident, and it wouldn't start again. All those "rubber" partials got dislodged, and clogged the jets. Made them a paper gasket...

Could be witches tho .  maybe .
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

thebatman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2432
  • The Bat lives on... like the fkn Energizer Bunny
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #101 on: February 18, 2012, 03:36:20 PM »
WITCHES??????????? COOOOULD VERY WELL BE..  :D

SSSHHHHHH....... They may BURN THE WITCHES.....

I recently had my fuel line on the s9 stretch out like a stretchy man from back in the days..I'd pull it and it would just strrrrrrreeettch as long as i wanted... ::)
"THE BAT"MAN...
Says:
"A goal without a plan is just a dream"......

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #102 on: February 18, 2012, 07:03:44 PM »
Polymeric bonds between the rubber and fuel proofing compounds breaking down due to...   Anyone?      I don't see any hands up...
    I found Axy on utube... ENJOY

"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

thebatman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2432
  • The Bat lives on... like the fkn Energizer Bunny
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #103 on: February 18, 2012, 07:25:03 PM »

Couldn't help but to laugh at that guy.
 :D  :D :D :DWhat a video...... :-X
"THE BAT"MAN...
Says:
"A goal without a plan is just a dream"......

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #104 on: February 18, 2012, 07:34:23 PM »
Axy has a older "how to" vid posted. This guy looks just like him.  A.D.D. was just a bonus.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()