Author Topic: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...  (Read 24140 times)

wordslinger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10766
  • undead primate
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #120 on: February 19, 2012, 06:54:33 AM »
...i'm just here for comic relief and moral support and peace and...


..stuff like that..



 ;)
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #121 on: February 19, 2012, 07:33:50 AM »

I already wish I didn't find this one...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

wordslinger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10766
  • undead primate
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #122 on: February 19, 2012, 07:45:46 AM »
..i bet she was rubbin her c... all the while...



..modified:

..guess i shouldnt have said that...

 :-*
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 08:07:59 AM by wordslinger »
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #123 on: February 19, 2012, 08:03:46 AM »
I knew this thread had bottomed out but...                    My FAVORITE movie?  Treasure of the Sierra Madre!   (Bogart/Huston)
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2012, 08:16:05 AM »
My best advice after going 15 rounds, and then into over time...  ?
I never debate/argue/disagree with my enemies because if they are anything like me they will NEVER quit!
 


Did you guys see reason #7 why   Harley riders don't wave to scooters...        They're afraid the bars will shake off.


YUP!
 
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

warriorboxerdog

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #125 on: February 29, 2012, 04:55:44 PM »
First off enthanol is more expensive to make then gas, ever think that could be a factor in the gas prices? Ethanol create less energy then gas and burns faster! Maybe if we were sould plan gas we would get better milage? Ethanol is corosive! That is a fact! If it isn't go by straight ethanol and fill you scooter with it and let me know what happens. Hahahaha! I read all about e 85 when they were first studying it to see if it could replace gas. They had to coat everything with teflon gass lines ect so they wouldn't corrode. Ethnol mixed gas burns hotter also. Ethnol makes the gas oxygenated which can damage older cars trucks 2 stroke engines ect. Oxygenated gas also has been the cause of water contaminated gas. The small benifit of oxygenated gas odes no out way the damage, it drives up gas prices, causes the consumer to get worse milage and damage to engines. I have a 2 stroke scooter and ethanol gas is really bad for it and causes it to run hotter and it will do the same for all air cooled motors. I have found a place in my area that sells non oxygenated racing fuel. The price of that fuel cost more (around $7 a gallon) but the pay of is increased milage, cooler running engine, increased compression, and longer engine life. Is it worth it? I say yes! The one reason I come up with why the government is putting ethnol in gas is to benifit the farmer. after all thats where ethanol begins life!

ts1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #126 on: February 29, 2012, 06:15:56 PM »
First off enthanol is more expensive to make then gas
Yes - on the first glance.
The second thought is how long fossil gas will be cheaper. The easy wells are draining. The bio technology is advancing (algae fuel).
The third thought is how much the indirect costs are - i.e. costs for the "oil war I" (Iraq). How much will you pay for oil war II (Iran)?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 06:17:38 PM by ts1 »

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #127 on: February 29, 2012, 07:50:05 PM »
 The one reason I come up with why the government is putting ethnol in gas is to benifit the farmer. after all thats where ethanol begins life!
There is a program in the U.S. that pays farmers for NOT planting crops. This is mostly aimed at corn/wheat farmers. This program goes back to the late 1930's. There has been so much pressure on the Govt. to end this program they needed a way to phase it out. Thus Ethanol specific corn planting.
I don't know all the nuances involved in this farming business, but I do know E is NOT a good replacement for fossil fuel. Not with the infrastructure we have. Fossil will run empty, and VERY soon. Perhaps in our life time. Synthetic Hydrocarbons have not been mentioned at all. This is the route that SHOULD be pursued.
Save the food fields for PEOPLE. Stop draining the planet that supports us. Stop KILLING for a FINITE resource. Synthetic fuel is more expensive to produce = TRUE. Cell phones cost $3,000.00 when they were introduced. Now they are free. Put the research, and production in HI gear.

From WIKI:
Direct conversion of coal to synthetic fuel was originally developed in Germany.[11] The Bergius process was developed by Friedrich Bergius, yielding a patent on the Bergius process in 1913. Karl Goldschmidt invited him to build an industrial plant at his factory the Th. Goldschmidt AG (now known as Evonik Industries) in 1914.[12] The production began only in 1919.[citation needed]

Also indirect coal conversion (where coal is gasified and then converted to synthetic fuels) was developed in Germany by Franz Fischer and Hans Tropsch in 1923.[11] During World War II, Germany used synthetic oil manufacturing (German: Kohleverflüssigung) to produce substitute (Ersatz) oil products by using the Bergius process (from coal), the Fischer–Tropsch process (water gas), and other methods (Zeitz used the TTH and MTH processes).[13][14] Before World War Two in 1931, the British Department of Scientific and Industrial Research located in Greenwich, England set up a small facility where hydrogen gas at extreme high pressure was combined with coal to make a synthetic fuel.[15]

The Bergius process plants were the primary source of Nazi Germany's high-grade aviation gasoline and the source of most of its synthetic oil, 99% of its synthetic rubber and nearly all of its synthetic methanol, synthetic ammonia, and nitric acid. Nearly 1/3 of the Bergius production was produced by plants in Pölitz (Polish: Police) and Leuna, with more than 1/3 more in five other plants (Ludwigshafen had a much smaller Bergius plant[16] which improved "gasoline quality by dehydrogenation" using the DHD process).[14]

Synthetic fuel grades included "T.L. [jet] fuel ", "first quality aviation gasoline", "aviation base gasoline", and "gasoline - middle oil";[14] and "producer gas" and diesel were synthesized for fuel as well (e.g., converted armored tanks used producer gas).[13]:4,s2 By early 1944, German synthetic fuel production had reached more than 124,000 barrels per day (19,700 m3/d) from 25 plants,[17][verification needed] including 10 in the Ruhr Area.[18]:239 In 1937, the four central Germany lignite coal plants at Böhlen, Leuna, Magdeburg/Rothensee, and Zeitz, along with the Ruhr Area bituminous coal plant at Scholven/Buer, had produced 4.8 million barrels (760×103 m3) of fuel. Four new hydrogenation plants (German: Hydrierwerke) were subsequently erected at Bottrop-Welheim (which used "Bituminous coal tar pitch"),[14] Gelsenkirchen (Nordstern), Pölitz, and, at 200,000 tons/yr[14] Wesseling.[19] Nordstern and Pölitz/Stettin used bituminous coal, as did the new Blechhammer plants.[14] Heydebreck synthesized food oil, which was tested on concentration camp prisoners.[20] The Geilenberg Special Staff was using 350,000 mostly foreign forced laborers to reconstruct the bombed synthetic oil plants,[18]:210,224 and, in an emergency decentralization program, to build 7 underground hydrogenation plants for bombing protection (none were completed). (Planners had rejected an earlier such proposal because the war was to be won before the bunkers would be completed.)[16] In July 1944, the 'Cuckoo' project[21] underground synthetic oil plant (800,000 m2) was being "carved out of the Himmelsburg" North of the Mittelwerk,[13] but the plant was unfinished at the end of WWII.

Indirect Fischer-Tropsch ("FT") technologies were brought to the US after World War 2, and a 7,000 barrels per day (1,100 m3/d) plant was designed by HRI, and built in Brownsville Texas. The plant represented the first commercial use of high-temperature Fischer Tropsch conversion. It operated from 1950 to 1955, when it was shut down when the price of oil dropped due to enhanced production and huge discoveries in the Middle East.[11]

After World War Two, in 1949 a demonstration plant for converting coal to gasoline was built and operated by the U.S. Bureau of Mines in Louisiana, Missouri.[22] Direct coal conversion plants were also developed in the US after WW2, including a 3 TPD plant in Lawrenceville, NJ, and a 250-600 TPD Plant in Catlettsburg, KY.

Those are just some of the background facts. There is toooooo much more to keep anyones interest... unfortunitly.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #128 on: February 29, 2012, 07:57:53 PM »
"Indirect Fischer-Tropsch ("FT") technologies were brought to the US after World War 2, and a 7,000 barrels per day (1,100 m3/d) plant was designed by HRI, and built in Brownsville Texas. The plant represented the first commercial use of high-temperature Fischer Tropsch conversion. It operated from 1950 to 1955, when it was shut down when the price of oil dropped due to enhanced production and huge discoveries in the Middle East.[11]"

Hindsight is 20/20 eh?

To -paraphrase... The collapse of civilization is not leaning from the past.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

ts1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #129 on: March 01, 2012, 10:17:24 AM »
Same procedure as last spring:
Today, with rising fuel prices and temperatures (not freezing), I fed my scoot again with E85. Current E85:E10 mixture is 1:3 (=E29), I'll increase the Ethanol percentage, when temperatures rise >=10.
E85 is actually 1.059€ / litre, E10 1.629€ / litre. Easy math, that you get more energy (calorific value) with Ethanol fuel.

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #130 on: March 02, 2012, 12:04:34 AM »
Same procedure as last spring:
Today, with rising fuel prices and temperatures (not freezing), I fed my scoot again with E85. Current E85:E10 mixture is 1:3 (=E29), I'll increase the Ethanol percentage, when temperatures rise >=10.
E85 is actually 1.059€ / litre, E10 1.629€ / litre. Easy math, that you get more energy (calorific value) with Ethanol fuel.

Since I don't want to debate the caloric value... Is your scoot STOCK, or re jetted? Stock heat range on the spark plug? Stock Ignition coil? I simply can't fathom how it is running on dirty booze!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

ts1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #131 on: March 02, 2012, 07:43:21 AM »
Everything stock. I dont want to rejet, because there aren't very many E85 petrol stations and I'm too lazy/greedy to make a 1 mile detour.
Of course the actual rainy 6°C (43°F) day isn't perfect for Ethanol use. Bad throttle response for the first seconds like with E10 at freezing temperatures. I blame the humidity for 5°C and the increased Ethanol percentage for another 5°C.

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2012, 07:59:17 PM »
Everything stock. I dont want to rejet, because there aren't very many E85 petrol stations and I'm too lazy/greedy to make a 1 mile detour.
Of course the actual rainy 6°C (43°F) day isn't perfect for Ethanol use. Bad throttle response for the first seconds like with E10 at freezing temperatures. I blame the humidity for 5°C and the increased Ethanol percentage for another 5°C.
Well that was the point of the thread. Ethanol blends are less than ideal for our scoots.
All I can really say at this point is "Good luck with that!"
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Peters

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1582
  • In Glock I Trust
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #133 on: March 03, 2012, 09:21:16 AM »
Is that the croatian talk you guys were talking about? ;)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:22:50 AM by Peters »
*2010 People 50 2t with 70cc kit and more
*2001 ZX-50 beater

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: This is what Ethanol does to rubber...
« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2012, 09:26:44 PM »
Yeah! I just learned another word...SKEEEEET SKEEEEET
Sounds kinda cute eh!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()