Author Topic: Idle shutdown  (Read 2939 times)

dbhouston

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Idle shutdown
« on: February 28, 2012, 05:47:32 PM »
I've got about 1100 on my Yager and love it - but now I have a mystery problem.

Last week, on a 70 degree day, I rode about 5 miles.  It did not start without some throttle, which seems to happen sometimes, but ran fine for a while.  Then, I noticed a bit of hesitation while riding when I released the throttle.  Finally, it was incapable of keeping the engine alive without throttle.  I let the engine cool a few minutes, but the problem didn't resolve.  I was less than 1/2 a mile from home, so I rode it home, trying to keep the throttle open even when stopping, but letting it just die a couple of times.  My dealer here in Austin isn't too far, but I didn't want to try that exercise in traffic.

The next morning, before the dealer came to pick it up, the damn thing started right up and idled nicely.  I didn't have time to ride it, and they trailered it in for service.

Since then, the dealer has been unable to replicate the problem.  The mechanic said that, when he first started it up, there was a patterned flash in the service light, but that has not returned either for him to read what it was indicating.  They've ridden it a good bit and just cannot get the issue to return.  Fluids and all the regular maintenance things checked out fine.

Friday, they were going to just bring the bike back to me.  But, having been nearly stranded close to home once, that doesn't work for me.  I take some long rides and a bike that cannot idle is not safe.  Not only that, but the dealer suggested this service might not be covered by the warranty!  A nearly new vehicle that fails at the basic task of running - that's a warranty problem in my book. 

Any suggestions as to a potential source of or solution to the problem?  My dealer seems to view the Kymco's as a sideline to his real business and doesn't seem to inclined to deal with me, so it would be great to be able to provide some guidance.  Thanks.

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 05:57:29 PM »
My first thoughts are: Water in the fuel. It may have been a small amount (condensation) this would give a "hot" reading to the O2 sensor causing the controller to "flood" the engine at low rpm.
 I would try 1-2 oz of Sea Foam in the tank to eliminate that as a problem. You could try draining a few oz's of fuel into a clear container for inspection but the water may have passed thru. Sea Foam is a good preventive in cold climates, as the condensation will happen again.
 That's my 2 cents

Ps. My thought on the "code" is if the rest of the sensors are reading correctly the O2 may have been flagged as "out of sync", and returned to "good" after the condensation passed.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 05:58:37 PM »
Could also replace the spark plug to be sure.  Air/fuel filters.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

dbhouston

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 04:47:29 PM »
Well, TJ's was never able to replicate my problem, so I'm going to hope the issue was something passing like H2O or a sensor that just needed to be reset.  TJ's also restored my faith in the brand and my dealer by dropping the charges, even for hauling the bike in.  Thanks for the suggestions, Zombie, and wish me luck on the next ride to the countryside!

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 06:16:32 PM »
Fingers crossed Bro! I would still suggest sea foam for at least this tank of fuel.
There are lots of electronic reasons for a similar malady so I would stick close to home for at LEAST that tank full. Maybe riding some bumpy local roads. Good luck. Keep us posted!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7763
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 08:18:28 PM »
There is a tube on the left side of the engine with a finger removable plug that collects sludgy, watery crud from the vapor cannister that needs to be drained about NOW for you! This crap will back up and get into the intake and just put the fire out. Drain it periodically as per the operator's manual and you should have no more problem. This is what happened to me so your real problem may be different (cover my butt statement!). Reminds me, I need to drain mine again!

Karl
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

juice

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 08:51:38 PM »
If your gas tank is not venting properly it could create a vacum which might cause similar symptoms . Good luck .

fshfindr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 09:00:50 PM »
Is there a downside to leaving the tube uncovered.  I have it on my yager and I guess on most Kymcos.

Richard L.
Richard L. in Bellmawr
Keep The Rubber Side Down & The Helmet Side Up

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7763
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 09:39:47 PM »
I don't know about leaving it open. I don't know how all this connects with a FI system. Open may upset the fuel-air mix. It could upset a lot of parameters. I am not willing to experiment.

Karl
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 11:34:28 PM »
I thought I posted for this too. If the tube can back flow into the intake there MUST be vacuum on this line. Leaving it open will create a vacuum leak, and cause more problems. That is if everything stated here is correct...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

fshfindr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 12:29:42 AM »
Thanks for the replies guys.  I was just curious with no intentions of leaving it open.  However, if it starts getting full too fast, I might leave it open until is goes to the shop.  Second thought, no I'll just check it more frequently.

Richard L.
Richard L. in Bellmawr
Keep The Rubber Side Down & The Helmet Side Up

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 12:42:39 AM »
I am thinking that tube is the crank case vent. They usually go to the air filter side of the carb. Not sure tho. Maybe you could find out, and post it for everyone. Someone must know, unless it is a MAGIC tube.  Oh no... Getting the vapors! (intended pun)
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7763
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2012, 05:30:27 PM »
I did go and drain mine. It had the usual water and oil crud in it. I also tracked where it is from and it is NOT the vapor cannister! It is from the engine side of the air cleaner. There is a vent from the transmission that goes to the same side as the air cleaner (transmission means the final drive gearbox). I do not know if there is a drain from the vapor can. I would say that leaving this sludge drain open is a bad idea since it would allow a small amount of unfiltered air into the throttle body and then into the engine intake.

Karl
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

zombie

  • You never know do ya!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
  • Close enough to get the idea!
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2012, 03:32:09 PM »
I don't think that hose can "vent" to the engine. It is a breather. so NO vacuum is on it. That little cap is where the crank case vent would install on other models that use the same "hose".
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7763
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Idle shutdown
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2012, 08:36:20 PM »
It would be a very small amount of unfiltered air and only if the air filter pleats are pretty dirty.

Karl
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()