This is what cheap(regular blend) fuel does inside your engine

[zombie]

This link just fell in my lap. Thanks TS1. It shows clearly how regular gasoline leaves soot/carbon behind in larger amounts than Premium grades. Always spend more to get more.
Or spend less, and deal with it.

[zombie]

Forgot the damn link...
Test burning of gasolines, ethanol and E40 (Тест бензинов, этанола и Е40)

[zombie]

I've been Hoodwinked! I DECLARE SHENNAGINS!!!
The link is on here in the Ethanol thread. I'll get it. More than one way to skin a cat!
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=5752.150

[wordslinger]

...   SHELL V-POWER  ...


...it's all i use..cause it's tried and true...


...here we go!!!...



..i remember "lankeeyankee" spouting how we were full of sh** if we ran high-octane inna single-cylinder engine...oh well...


..i still do, and always will....


              

[streido]

Me too, i always buy the best grade fuel. It only cost a few pence extra anyway per tank.

[axy]

What does "best grade" fuel mean and why is it better than "cheap regular bland" fuel?

I am not interested in words like "water, dirt and impurity". Also "tried and true" and "best grade" are more like subjective marketing fads/slogans than facts.

Can you give exact specifications to support these claims?

For example, here is a detailed catalogue of fuels produced by Croatian NOC, from petroleum to jet fuels.

http://www.google.hr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEUQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ina.hr%2Fuserdocsimages%2Fpdf%2FKatalog_goriva.pdf&ei=TX91T_HuBsHntQbW3rTDAw&usg=AFQjCNHImt4yL1dSSaBgv89C1PR2fjoDmQ&sig2=Ib206fwre3V-odsXDJnacg

Abbreviated in English: http://www.ina.hr/default.aspx?id=307

None of the fuels are "better" or "worse" than others. They are simply conforming to specified norms and purposes, or not conforming.

So, you can read exact composition of each fuel and whether it suits your vehicle.
I would like to emphasize that scooter engines are simple enough to be run on "the simplest" of the fuels in the catalogue, lead free 95 octane.
That is the same fuel I use in my Euro V car.

I would like to think that in USA there is also a similar specification, so we can skip the witchcraft, wishful thinking where "more expensive = premium = desirable, heatlhy" and concentrate on pure facts.

[streido]

"Best grade" - highest octane is what i go for, and i normally avoid supermarket forecourt fuels if possible.

[axy]

"Best grade" - highest octane is what i go for, and i normally avoid supermarket forecourt fuels if possible.

Now we are getting somewhere.

This is better - you personally consider "best grade" fuel to be fuel with "highest octane number."
I also realize that for some personal reason you do not like "supermarket" fuels.

Two questions for you:

1. Do you agree or disagree with the fact that additional octane value of fuel above that specified by the vehicle manufacturer has no benefit at all?
I think that for most Kymcos that value is 91 or 95 RON.
We have not had fuels lower than 95 RON for a decade or so in my country.

2. Most fuels in certain area in USA and Europe (let's say, in a radius of few hundred kilometers) come from a single source/refinery and they are therefore of the same quality, regardless of the marketing, contract and brand under which they are sold.

Testing of fuels year in and year out in almost all car magazines shows that single most important factor in keeping fuels up to specs is how often gas pump tanks are being cleaned and maintained, where "supermarket" and large downstream retail companies are far superior to "mom and dad" gas pumps, where they do not adhere to such high standards. "Supermarket" gas pumps have strict tank cleaning and maintenance schedules.

Would you agree or disagree with these statements from point 2.?

[streido]

I do agree with both point,i take your word on the kymco figures cos i havent looked myself. I just feel my scoot runs better on the 97ron fuels. The reason i avoid supermarket stations is that i run a diesel car and have been told from at least 2 diesel mechanics that the suoermarket diesel is inferior in keeping my diesel running well in comparrison to the major oil stations. I dont know if this applies to petrol too but i just avoid them. I dont pass any on my usual routes anyhow to use them.

Im in Scotland, our basic fuel is 95ron, fuel+ is 97ron but some fuels offered can be 99ron. I stick with the 97.

[axy]

I do agree with both point,i take your word on the kymco figures cos i havent looked myself. I just feel my scoot runs better on the 97ron fuels. The reason i avoid supermarket stations is that i run a diesel car and have been told from at least 2 diesel mechanics that the suoermarket diesel is inferior in keeping my diesel running well in comparrison to the major oil stations. I dont know if this applies to petrol too but i just avoid them. I dont pass any on my usual routes anyhow to use them.

Im in Scotland, our basic fuel is 95ron, fuel+ is 97ron but some fuels offered can be 99ron. I stick with the 97.

We have here 95, 98 and 100.

Subjective/personal advice: the last people on earth to ask anything about things like these are mechanics. I've heard so much bs from them, it's incredible. You'd expect them to be "masters of the trade", but when you think of it, one thing is to possess technical knowledge and skills and completely another to understand mechanical engineering or chemistry. Add to that propensity of people to create "eternal" truths about cars (and sports... ...

I was open minded and used 100 octane in my new car (1.4 16V VVT/109 hp) for a few tanks to track consumption/noises/power development and to be honest, there is zero difference to 95 octane fuel in any regard, so I have been using the cheapest 95 I can find ever since. Of course, most people will tell you to use more expensive fuel because expensive = "better" somehow. Even **MY** car mechanic told me that, however, in real life, I tend to say "yes, yes", because it's easier to do so....

[streido]

I know exactly how much b.s mechanics can talk, my car was running badly and was examined twice by 2 different garages who both told me my turbo was leaking and needed replaced for £1200-£1500   

I almost sold the car since i didnt want to pay that price for a turbo but before i did someone recommended a local independent diesel specialist so i took it their for a 3rd opinion. After 1hr they called me to say the turbo was fine and the problem was down to a bad sensor and my egr valve being bunged up with soot. They fixed it for just over £100 and blanked off my egr valve. 2yrs later the car is still fine and so is my turbo.

I was told that supermarket diesel tends to bung up the egr valves and advised to try avoid it if poss. This guy seems to really know his stuff and didnt try scam or b.s me so i take his word on it. Granted its diesel not petrol we out in our scoots and bikes but im just into the habit of not using supermarket fuels. Tbh the cost isnt any less really if i factor in travelling to the supermarket rather than using my closer local station anyway, i get my groceries online and have them delivered.

Maybe its an urban myth or my imagination is fooling me but my scoot feels happier on the 97ron. Since it only cost me maybe around £25-£30 extra/yr to use the 97ron it wont break the bank, its only maybe 40p extra per tank.

[axy]

I know exactly how much b.s mechanics can talk, my car was running badly and was examined twice by 2 different garages who both told me my turbo was leaking and needed replaced for £1200-£1500  

I almost sold the car since i didnt want to pay that price for a turbo but before i did someone recommended a local independent diesel specialist so i took it their for a 3rd opinion. After 1hr they called me to say the turbo was fine and the problem was down to a bad sensor and my egr valve being bunged up with soot. They fixed it for just over £100 and blanked off my egr valve. 2yrs later the car is still fine and so is my turbo.

  They almost screwed you over really nicely...

Btw. EGR recirculates exhaust air and mixes it with fresh air and rams it back into cyllinders to ensure more efficient combustion/eco standards.
Diesel "quality" has nothing to do with faulty EGRs. Trust me (I am not a mechanic!)
There are other things that might go wrong if diesel is not up to specs, especialy in the injection part of the system. Some systems are especially sensitive to low quality diesel and that's why you will never see many modern diesel cars in the most eastern parts of Europe/ and throughout Asia/Africa.

EGRs have to be inspected regularly and replaced. If the solenoid gets a bit rusty, it should be cleaned. If it gets stuck, it is time to replace it.
It is replaceable/serviceable part.  

[old mod]

Axy, you are quite right in what you say, but, the egr pumps sooty exhaust fumes back into the inlet manifold on a diesel. This evenually clogs up the inlet and turbo, replacing the egr will not clean those! The function of the egr is to reduce Nitrous Oxide ( causes acid rain) but it also reduces the efficiency of the engine resulting in more pollution overall! In my opinion it's a bad idea!
 PS i always use cheapest fuel, tests have shown no advantaage in expesive fuel.

[Poots]

This link just fell in my lap. Thanks TS1. It shows clearly how regular gasoline leaves soot/carbon behind in larger amounts than Premium grades. Always spend more to get more.
Or spend less, and deal with it.

I watched that video with the different fuels all burning via a wick and each giving off it’s pre-programmed amount of soot and I have to tell you, I haven’t seen anything that ridiculous in years.

It was like watching an Al Gore video. It is absolute nonsense…

Anyone that has ever lit an oil lantern knows that if the wick is turned up too high it will burn with a large yellow flame that gives off so much soot that it blocks the chimney in seconds.

Turn the wick down and you get a nice white light with no soot and a clear chimney.

AND THAT’S WITH THE EXACT SAME FUEL!!!

And I would not recommend that you try lighting any grade of gasoline with a wick. That’s asking for a trip to the burn clinic.

From my post on the Yager forum:


http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=5671.msg58381#msg58381


As to Axy’s comment that all gasoline supplied within a hundred klicks or so of a given refinery are probably all made at that refinery and are therefore the same he is partially correct.

Oil companies do trade production with each other, but they all have their own formulations. When making fuels for other companies the refinery will enter their formula and produce it to their specs – not that there’s much difference. They all just like to think that they have a secret… (The secret is that they don’t have any secrets… )

Buy and use the fuel that the engine manufacturer designed the engine to run on.

Paying more doesn’t always mean better and it might even run worse.

[zombie]

Is this where I apply for membership to the Flat Earth Society?
Axy... That is the most sense I've heard from you lately. Going above the manufacturers Oct rating in most scoots is a waste. Except for the Mileage increase, and that can be as subjective as the whole topic with out Dyno proof. I'll look it up later
The idea of buying from a "grocery chain" is also a GOOD idea for the reasons Axy pointed out. They go thru more fuel so Phase Separation is not as big an issue, same for Stale gas. Not an issue at larger bulk retailers.

Even the VP of FES (flat earth Soc) Poots got it right with the air/fuel ratio creating soot.
 The EGR workings are also spot on. They do indeed stuff bad things back into the combustion cycle, and result in poor fuel economy, and running problems.
I'm so proud I could cry...
On another thread it was posted that Kymco has started modifying their fuel system components with an E10 suffix for compatibility w/ Eth blend fuels. I even have a little tear for Kymco on that one. I guess they read the Ethanol/Rubber thread... Eh?

As for the FES... You can't handle the truth.
Gonna sleep like a baby tonight.