General politics and economy thread

[Vivo]

Given that England, France, spain, Holland, portugal, and other Europeans where raping and pillaging foreign lands centuries before tbe US was even founded, and the fact that most modern US citizens will be of European descent, i guess we can say that it was inevitable that athe US would continue where Europe left off.

I guess so, we were colonized by Spain headed by a Portugese then sold to the U.S. after 300 years. The Spanish taxation system gave a bad image to our people. "Juan Tamad" or "Lazy John".  Of course! people wont work anymore because more than half of the income or harvest goes to the Spanish government. I, for one, is a Spanish descent. Great, great, grand father was an Agustinian Friar. Should I be proud? 

[ts1]

...i guess we can say that it was inevitable that athe US would continue where Europe left off.

True!
But it is not forbidden to enhance medieval habits. At least we (US+Europe) ask other countries to do so.

[axy]

Im not US bashing here as the government in London is no better really, the only difference is that London just do it on a smaller scale.

Neither am I bashing the U.S.  I'm just reiterating the facts of history. 

Well, British did exactly the same thing US is doing now, on a similar scale, only 200 years earlier.

[streido]

Well, British did exactly the same thing US is doing now, on a similar scale, only 200 years earlier.

Exactly Axy, that was my point, most of large European powers gained that power and wealth by exploiting and stealing from other foreign lands in the past. In fact some still do abuse and exploit other countries today, the Falkland islands or as the should be called Maldives are a perfect example. England claims them as "British" British They are NOT British, they lie off the coast of South America so how the f..k can they possibly be British? All down to power and wealth, especially now oil is into the equation there. Expect another oil war soon.

[08087]

You have to hand it to anyone that excels at anything. I marvel at a good bank robber or art theif just as I do any country that pulls the wool over everyones eyes for century's (2 in this case). If it weren't the US it would be England, Japan, or some other country. Your all pissing and moaning about the US taking advantage of others not smart enough to stop them.

Who would you rather be doing this, the Russians, China? Someone will do it as there is always someone willing to abuse others. S stop moaning and tell us what's your solution?

Would you rather be influanced by one of those 2 countires or by the US? Right now the US is more danger to itself then any other place in the world, if we keep it up we'll be disolving the republic as we know it and that won't be good for it's citizens.

[ts1]

Who would you rather be doing this, the Russians, China?

Preferably someone with a clean record and no fixed doctrine to impose on others. India!?

[streido]

the US taking advantage of others not smart enough to stop them.

Its not about being smart or not, no matter how smart you are its difficult to beat someone who will use all their power and influence to force others to back them and their ideas up, which is what the US does on a daily basis. Smaller countries are coerced, bullied, threatened, bribed and forced to accept what the US wants, its the American way. Sure other countries do it too but none have anywhere near the pwerbase the US has thanks to decades of being used by America, and that includes Britain.

I dont care how rich and powerful my nation can become thro these underhand means, i dont want it if it means being a dictator to the world. How could i sit happily in my mansion, with all my comforts, stuffing my face with food and wine,  watching my 120" lcd tv show pictures of starving 3rd world countries? I couldnt, but many could.

The only way to end it is for the public to get so sick of the lies and deceit that they rise up and do something to force change. I thought it was happening with the occupy movement but alas it seems to have failed for now, but unless things drastically change then occupy level 2 will begin soon and this time it will be civil war i fear. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer but eventually it will get to that point where they have had enough. If you keep kicking a dog then eventually it will turn around one day and bite you in the ass.

The whole capitalist system is unsustainable, like a huge pyramid scam it WILL come crashing down. We need a new more fair way, where everyone shares the wealth and resources we have on this planet equally instead of this crap we have no with the haves vs the have nots. I vote for civil disobedience as a start, re-ignite the occupy movement, ignore their laws, stop paying taxes, and force the change we all need.

"You may say i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one. I hope someday you will join us, and the world can live as one" -  wiser words have not been spoken, we need a new global revolutionary group, and we need it now!

[08087]

The smartest of our people then was President Ferdinand E. Marcos. Our dictator who ruled for more than 20 years and later decided to declare Martial Law. HE WAS AN AMERICAN PUPPET! and he controlled everything! all big businesses, media, I mean everything!  Our people cannot do anything. If you're against him, you will end up a political prisoner or be shot. Not even a foreign country would dare fight Marcos because its just being against America. Nobody can remove him from office except the Americans, which did happen when our people decided "no more!" and marched to the streets in 1996. After he was removed by the Americans, our next President worked on removing the U.S. bases here.  Marcos' wife, Imelda, stole jewelry, money, and anything she wanted. She can even walk in any bank and ask for a suitcase of money and nobody can question her. Are you familiar of Imelda's 3,000 pairs of shoes? Those 20+ years were the greatest time of the Americans in our country. 


There were even famous intelligent Americans who were opposed to the American imperialism. The 1898 Treaty of Paris which ended the Spanish-American War essentially allowed for the annexation of the Philippines by the United States. A Filipino independence movement begun earlier in the decade to free the islands from Spanish rule now was directed against the new foreign ruler, America. While many, if not most, Americans favored annexation, there were notable opponents, including William Jennings Bryan, Andrew Carnegie, John Dewey, William James – and Mark Twain. They, along with many others, formed the Anti-Imperialist League, which briefly served as the organizational center for opposition to the developing American Empire.

Twain told the New York Herald on October 15, 1900: “I have read carefully the Treaty of Paris, and I have seen that we do not intend to free, but to subjugate the people of the Philippines. We have gone there to conquer, not to redeem. It should, it seems to me, be our pleasure and duty to make those people free, and let them deal with their own domestic questions in their own way. And so I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land.”

Well said! Now for the sake of debate I will hold up the US end here. So you don't give the US any credit for being so good and smart to not only control it's people but the people of your land as well? Come on you have to admit we're good at being bad.

One thing you did contradict yourself in is this: "Our people cannot do anything.", "Nobody can remove him from office except the Americans, which did happen when our people decided "no more!" and marched to the streets in 1996. "

It's never easy for the "people" to rise up and soon it will be our turn (Americans), we'll have to wait and see how it goes. I'm pretty well aware of Mrs Marcos and her shoes, people cannot expect to be helped without paying a price. The US is one of the richest countries in the world I get a slice of the pie, I get to live somewhat free, and have a chance at making it rich or at least a good comfortable life (which I have) much of it thanks to the US being so good at being bad.

[zombie]

You all know where this is going...

No ill gotten gains allowed either.

[Vivo]

Well said! Now for the sake of debate I will hold up the US end here. So you don't give the US any credit for being so good and smart to not only control it's people but the people of your land as well? Come on you have to admit we're good at being bad.

One thing you did contradict yourself in is this: "Our people cannot do anything.", "Nobody can remove him from office except the Americans, which did happen when our people decided "no more!" and marched to the streets in 1996. "

It's never easy for the "people" to rise up and soon it will be our turn (Americans), we'll have to wait and see how it goes. I'm pretty well aware of Mrs Marcos and her shoes, people cannot expect to be helped without paying a price. The US is one of the richest countries in the world I get a slice of the pie, I get to live somewhat free, and have a chance at making it rich or at least a good comfortable life (which I have) much of it thanks to the US being so good at being bad.

I don't think there was a contraction, maybe just a wrong choice of words or wrong sentence construction from an Asian. There were lots of attempts before to "rise up" but failed. It was not an instant "no more, let's march" kind of thing. Lots of opposition fellows died. Political leaders who were planning to take over were either imprisoned, bombed, or they just vanish and later their bodies be discovered in an empty lot. Justice were nil. Series of events for decades led to this "peaceful revolution" in 1996, like a balloon slowly inflating and inflating and inflating and later, boom!

Ah! but Sir! I love America! especially U.S. products! I have very good American friends, like I've said before I have a brother in Houston, cousins in Florida, Colorado, Illinois, and Virginia to name a few. I love a big rack of U.S. barbeque with a sixpack of bud on the side, wifey's fav is apple pie, I grew up loving American stuff and riding my dad's '65 Mustang and '70 Challenger. Japanese cars were a no no. We love American muscle cars, including my son. And no country can make the best movies in the world but the U.S. of A.  You're right in saying that you get to live somewhat free and I know that for a fact. That is why a lot of us here love to stay there. All my relatives there are doing good that's why they call it "the land of milk and honey".  Well, like I said on my previous post, I'm not bashing America nor even debating, just reiterating history. Peace!

[Vivo]

You have to hand it to anyone that excels at anything. I marvel at a good bank robber or art theif ...

Yes!, I will even love him! as long as it's not my bank he robs or my painting he steals!

[zombie]

That made me realize... Most other countries stand up, and fight. You see it all the time on the "news" but in the US no one does. Sure small hippie tea parties, and Star Treckee's riot when the tickets are sold but no one here fights! Most of our cops are like Broc Lessner. Giant pussies that run for cover when the hurting starts, and our armed forces are children. There is no real threat to stop a takeover of the Govt. if that is the goal. Hell the state of New Jersey could kick some military ass in a fair fight. So what gives here? I don't see a NEED for US revolution, just an overhaul of policy is all but I think we are all too self centered to care about our future generations. Maybe that's why all the hype about the "end of the world". Maybe people here Hope for it to alive their guilt? Do the Non US'er believe in the end of the world sh**? We have a new "scare" every 2 years or so, and people think it's REAL. (TV Wrestling). I'd rather be in PRISON the rest of my life for ridding the Earth of a maniac than watch him pass by. In the US we walk over people that have died, and pretend to our selves he is just drunk. (NYC). I stop. I'm tired.

[Vivo]

The END OF THE WORLD threat was last year. I think they postponed it for some reason. I don't know. Let's see this year.

[zombie]

We now have till Dec. 12 2012 here. The Mayans said so. I think G. busch is the one that found the note. I don't mind. I'll ride over to the Islands, and live in scooter heaven while the aliens land in NeWark. And yesssss I HATE Jersey. no joke

[Vivo]

Aaah... Jersey.. Who loves Jersey?