General politics and economy thread

[juice]

Hey , wait just a minute . This thread is obviously intended as a stage for some good old USA bashing . I suggest you start a new thread for religion bashing . Good day .

[axy]

Hey , wait just a minute . This thread is obviously intended as a stage for some good old USA bashing . I suggest you start a new thread for religion bashing . Good day .

Well, I am not contributing to this thread too much, but aren't you just a tad paranoid?
Previous picture is just excerpt from some statistics.

Nominally and statistically, this number for my country is - 89,88 % just for Catholics!. Among top ranking in Europe.
+ Ortodox, Muslim and everybody else..
However, there is a big difference between "historical" classification as being religious and practical one.
Some research says that practically, this number is not far from 11 % for my country.

As for bashing, everybody should be educated and critical enough to make separation between "USA politics and establishment bashing" and "USA people bashing".
For example, I think that main export of USA has been crisis in the past decades and its foreign policy is nothing short of being fascist and dictatorial. This spills over to national area too - take a look at laws that do not exist anywhere else since times of Nazi Germany.
However, I would never claim that American people are like that. Elite is one thing, people are completely another. Unfortunately, all great things done by Founding Fathers have become distorted perversion.

Good day to you too.

[juice]

Hook , line , and sinker .

[streido]

Vermomt looks good to me 

[axy]

Somebody beat me in the Internet game of Special Olympics arguing.

[08087]

Any chance we can make posts without using bad language? The reason I say this is at some point it could turn into "you/I are an F'ing idiot" and that doesn't make for good productive conversation or debate. It's up to us of course as I am only a member here like the rest of you.

Whie I agree that Bush got us into war that doesn't mean that Gore would not have done the same. After all all Gore had to do was get hold of a judge toward the end and he choose not to. Sounds more to me like Gore was told to let it go. Besides the point though Gore also has made a mint and served a greater purpose by pushing the global warming deal. Before long you will be forced to buy carbon credits, yes you will be paying for the air you breath.

Clinton, you need to check into Vince Foster and see if he was murdered or not, but that is neither here nor there also. I think they are all killers, fakes phonies and fruads. All bought and paid for by corps. that want to push their idea of what is right and wrong.

You mention going back to the constitution, yet that maybe a UN type agency could make rulings over certain issues. That goes against our constitution, we are a complete and individual country regulated by no other law but our own. If we change that one thing we open the door for further moves against us.

For the record I am not a Dem or a Rep, I am a free thinker and freely think we are in great trouble.

More reasons to follow.

U.S. Govt "policy" is one issue I really don't know how to solve. Most of us know what is wrong but do not see a way to repair the system. Perhaps going back to the Original Constitution/Bill of Rights? It seems to me the source of our trouble is from "elected officials" lying to the public at large. Not simply mis stating fact, but Lying. There seems to be a mentality that dictates "the more power you gain in life the Stupider everyone else gets". It seems to me with everyone I know having something to spout off about there would be an easy fix.
First off tho... The electoral system in the U.S. is just wrong. Every man, woman , and goat in a state votes for "A", The electoral (winning) vote is "B". HUH?
Fact: There would have been no 10 year war if Bush did not STEAL the presidency. Little coincidence that the one state that had a f***ed up tally is the state his BROTHER governed. Such a simple thing caused 100's of thousands of deaths.
Perhaps a "United Nations" type political policing agency. Any countries leaders F'ing up could be put out instantly. No hearing just out. Look at our Beloved Bill Clinton. HE IS A LIAR! He lied to the entire world about SEX. Not murder or baby thieving. Just SEX! Now his ragady ass wife is Sect. of State? WHAT? How about 15 years in prison for him, and a bar from politics for her. She is NO innocent either. Insider trading...
I have never traveled outside the US but I do read. Every other economically developed country has State funded health care. Here we have Welfare for those that decide to stay home doing drugs, and spending other peoples retirement money on Old English 40's. I say welfare should be eliminated altogether. Set up a Govt. Day Care for the little sluts that get pregnant with out a husband. Instead of welfare for them MAKE them work for the money. Have the single mom apply for welfare to support her/baby, and instead give her the keys to the daycare center where she can watch the babies of all the others that would rather work. Same for Medicare... It is a F'ing JOKE. These welfare "clients" get free medical for the kid so they are at the Dr.'s office every f'ing day. I think they do this to show "how much they care" about little Johnny. In reality they don't give a sh**! They are trying to make their drug addicted self feel/look better by "taking Johny to the Dr.'s today"
There is too much for me to try to get off my chest. Ho about just sterilizing these people??? If you want welfare we will pay for ONE child, and you MUST be sterilized. Your choice. That's what I thought.

This is very interesting... There is a Professor in Cali. His name is Gates I believe. A black man studying black "studies". His ambition was to educate white America on the history/struggle of blacks in America. In researching Slavery he found "Whites" did NOT go into Africa stealing black people... Black tribes were selling their rival tribesmen to the whites. So BLACKS were the source of all the slaves taken to America. That lights a fire with every audience (mainly black) he lectures to so he devised a simple solution... A FREE one way ticket for ANYONE that hates America soooo much to go back to "The Mother Land". NOT ONE SOUL has taken a ticket.
I'm not using color to make the point. I am stating people in general do not see the real picture because there is ssoooooo much deception it seems easier to say WHAT CAN I DO!
I guess not much considering all of our founding fathers were rejects from their own countries. Australia is the same... Penal colony. England...Inbred leaders. Canada...They just fart alot!
Again... NO OFFENSE. I'm just saying 

[08087]

Just scanned the 2nd page and I'll add this. To the German that posted here about America, I could go into great length and detail about WWII and the relationships between Germany and America but there is far too short a space for that.

I won't go so far as to apologize for what America does, if it weren't for America and Germany would have lost the war you'd be under Russian control now and not looking so good. Germany for whatever reason got themselves into a mess. Just like the American people of today (myself included) are in a great mess. WWI was fought and lost by Germany, that eventually got them into WWII and Hitler. Most people from everywhere are good people it is their leaders that get them into trouble. I have traveled a great deal and have been warmly welcomed wherever I've been. Why, because people are good.

I for one love Germany, have been there 3 times and would go back tomorrow if I could, but the people or leaders of Germany agreed to certain terms when the war ended and now they are paying for those agreements, fair or not they agreed.

To the member from the Philippines, your people welcomes Gen McAuther to your island as if he were a God! The Japanese were brutal to your people, treating them as dirt and inferior, just as they did with people from China. True your people don't want us (the US) there anymore but that doesn't make us the bad guys. If we had lost the war you'd be under rule of Japan and it would not be the same Japan as you see today. 

[08087]

 OK done with page 3.

No USA bashing at all, the USA has exported far too much political grab. What are we doing in the middle east, except taking oil on the cheap. What we should have done was kept up the offense during and after WWII and taken everything if that is what we wanted all along. Let’s face it, fuel in the US is far cheaper than most of the world.

Again it would be nice if we could state what country you are in/from so it makes things easier to understand your point of view.

(Me USA)

As far as needing money, we could easily enough get by without paper money by using silver and gold, but it's the bankers that need money or what is coming next (credits). This way they can tax you more efficiently and take their "fair share".

[streido]

On your table Axy i would expect the numbers are pretty skewed and not really accurate. I know here in the UK when polls are taken on religion it can range from 20%-80% of our population who are christian of some kind or other, when in actual fact the number of practicing christians is probably closest to the lowest number. Personally i could count the number of practicing religious believers of any religion i know on one hand so in my world the number would be in the single figures given the number of people i know. Like any stat or poll chart a lot would depend on the wording of the question.

Anyway, in my opinion religion is one of the biggest causes of conflict and division around.

If we could all just get along and stop bickering over petty sh!t or illegally invading each other in search of power and wealth we would live in a far better world. Think of the money we would save on arms and warfare alone?

The US gov spend billions every year to protect their "freedom" and yet they live in a constant state of paranoia and fear of attack, is it worth it? Wouldnt it be easier and far cheaper to just be nice to other nations and respect their way of life even if its not the American way?

Religion messes way too much in American politics and public life, im glad i for one could not live like that. Why should the particular  religion or lack of it of someone even be an issue at election time? I dont get that. What all the nonsense about Obama being a muslim? Who gives a sh** even if he was? All that tells me is that those evangelical christian types are saying basically "we dont trust muslims" . Radical or extremist christians are just as bad as radical or extremist muslims, or jews, or hindus lr whatever.

Time we evolved and stopped worrying about some after life and instead concentrated in improvong all our actual lives.

Church and state must be totally seperate, otherwise you are no better than the muslim countries you all complain about who live under mullahs and sharia law.

I must say, its refreshing to hear rational and well made points made by Americans which doesnt involve "Go U.S.A!" type comments, i was worried this thread would end up as the world vs the US. Thing is, much as the news reports portray the middle east as a hotbed of terrorism and chaos, the same press portray Americans as gung-ho, money chasing, right-wing christian bigots. I knkw there are many good Americans just as there are many good Iranians or Iraqis, the nutters all just have a louder voice and drown out the reasonable and rational voices. Hawks vs doves.

[zombie]

So it still begs the point of how to fix the Global mess. We all agree people are Mostly concerned for global harmony, and it is the Elected/non elected officials acting at the whim of Corporate markets that create the worst of our problems (Haliburton) If lobbying were banned it would just go back into the alley. Vetting does no good at all because if your smart enough to make millions off "shady" deals you are smart enough to hide the evidence.
I have always seen aspects of religions that are 100% correct. Same for Govt. type/standard. Perhaps a UN dictate to guidelines for Govt. Take all the best bits from each, and Make it work. Opening all the worlds borders would be a tremendous start as well. You don't want your teenagers in the room with company, and the door closed, so why allow "shady" Govt's. to close borders. Including the US. The main issue with US /Mexico seems to be US tax dollars going to "Wetbacks" not contributing. I say give to NO ONE. NO more welfare at all. Problem solved. Use the dollars for health care not welfare. No ore green cards, just let them in, and let them live. If you or I were stuck in Mexico with no papers, we would become wetbacks too.
I would LOVE to travel but as most of you know I would wind up under a Turkish prison for laughing at the guy that smelled like Humus. Open the borders, and open your hearts.
Religion doesn't really matter. We all have a "god" of sorts. (although no one has ever seen the guy) Religion should be treated like underwear. We all have some but are not invited to show it to the world. Keep your Gods out of politics. PERIOD! It sucks how people will kill everyone, and everything because they say some inviable guy wants them to. How the F' do you argue with that? Religious wars belong in the stone age. If your Alah/budha/jesus. wants bodies let him get them.
I'm sure Putin would rather someone hold a door for his wife than kill her cause she's a Mormon for Snoopy's sake.
Yeah... Open the borders. That will change everything.

[Vivo]

To the member from the Philippines, your people welcomes Gen McAuther to your island as if he were a God! The Japanese were brutal to your people, treating them as dirt and inferior, just as they did with people from China. True your people don't want us (the US) there anymore but that doesn't make us the bad guys. If we had lost the war you'd be under rule of Japan and it would not be the same Japan as you see today. 

You talked like you were there! Who welcomed Gen McArthur? Your only reference are the history books maybe (made by Americans) or the Video clips and pictures of McArthur's return (taken by Americans and published worldwide aka: American propaganda! my God! these video clips were even shown in theaters).  Our people did not welcome him but the Americans themselves who were left in our country when McArthur left! He had to return to fulfill his promise of "I shall return!" and hopefully a notch up in popularity rating if he decides to run for President. My parents were there, my uncles and aunts were there my grand parents were there and a lot of other relatives. They did not welcome McArthur! Another point, the Japanese were not here because they want to conquer, rule or colonize us. The Japanese were here because they were after the U.S. bases in our country. They need to destroy these U.S. bases (remember Pearl Harbor also?) We were not in war with any country. The Japanese were not brutal to our people, a lot of my relatives and even my father before, worked for the Japanese in their camps. The Americans were brutal. A G.I. Joe will slap you and will just give a bar of Hersheys to compensate. We were colonized by the Spaniards. The Americans bought the Philippines from the Spaniards for 20 million dollars in gold, staged a fake war (I think one died), the Spaniards left, and Americans came in, built the U.S. bases and the rest is history. Our good citizens who were against the Americans cannot do anything, they were tagged as rebels, guerillas, and criminals. The Americans had guns, money, ships, planes, mass media, height, command of the English language, and everything good and powerful! It's either you're with them or against them.

[08087]

Only a min. here so the quick fix is,

A global and local revolution, but it won't happen in the states just yet, we are still fat and lazy. We the last 3 generations don't know what it's like to go hungry and without work or food.

when the day comes that they deprive us of our liberty (as they are starting to do (Obama care, Patriot act, high taxes) and start to starve us then we may revolt. Also many Americans are watered down versions of yester year (meaning pretty dumb).

[08087]

Only a min. here so the quick fix is,

A global and local revolution, but it won't happen in the states just yet, we are still fat and lazy. We the last 3 generations don't know what it's like to go hungry and without work or food.

when the day comes that they deprive us of our liberty (as they are starting to do (Obama care, Patriot act, high taxes) and start to starve us then we may revolt. Also many Americans are watered down versions of yester year (meaning pretty dumb).

Time is short but I did read the first couple of lines and to answer you directly I got the info from the horses mouth, my father served in your country faithfully and saved many of your fellow people, insted of bitching you should be thankful!
no doubt knowone wants a base of another country on their soil, I would not like it and no doubt that crimes are made by GI's that should go punished. But if the Japs had their way with you and they did for a time you'd be speaking another tune. So God Bless AMERICA my friend, there's a reason so many of your people come to these shores even today.

[Vivo]

God Bless America! I'm not against Americans per se, ... you know what I'm talking about right? I have a brother in Houston, cousins in Florida and Colorado, and a lot of other relatives there. I'm sure your father is a good soldier and so are a lot of American soldiers but what pissed me, and a lot of fellow countrymen, are the American politics and propaganda behind every scene. The things we don't see, the puppeteers!

[PassedByAScooter]

Vermomt looks good to me 

'Tis my home State. We are like a country within a country. Life is different here. Trust me, I know (Boston, Florida, Phoenix are places that Ive been able to experience first hand) and I keep coming back.
As far as any USA bashing, I could care less. I'm not exactly teeming with pride over our flag the last several years. The image we portray to the world is not indicative of the fine people that actually make this country run. Having friends that aren't US citizens, I can appreciate how Americans must look from the outside looking in. We look gluttonous and bullish. We flash our smile in a manner that suggests "you'll do what I want ANYWAY or else" At times, this embarrasses me. However this is not who real Americans are.
But regardless of my roller coaster feelings regarding my country, I love the hell out of my state: Vermont.