Project Electronic Fuel Injection

[zombie]

"The police i'm thinking of are the regular police, who along with the public and the politicians are very misinformed, when it comes to scooters. The police are just doing their part, to check that people are acting according to the law,"
Ok I understand... They are monitoring you posts

The kit is coming from HK because we do that here. Sell sh** we don't have, and have it shipped. Be happy tho it's not going to the US first, and relabeled to send to you. Maybe you can catch the Manufactures name in there somewhere to have direct access.

I'm sure you will figure this out... The O2 sensor will have a tapered "pipe" thread.

[baddi]

Ok I understand... They are monitoring you posts

Of course they are. 

Wow, That business style seems kind of douchy, but yeah, in some way, im glad that it didn't have to travel one way across the world to go back the other way.

[zombie]

With a Moniker like Baddi you should already Know... It's how we roll Bro!

[baddi]

I recieved the kit today, and i must say, that im both possitively and negatively supprised about the form of the throttle body.
Im possitively supprised, that it has as few or even fewer sharp edges than the original kymco karburator, but im kinda negatively supprised, that it has 2 methods of adjusting the idle. The one on the throttle, as we know it from the CVT carburator. This one adjusts both air and fuel by the Throttle Possition Sensor, but the other one doesnt. The other one is a screw, that when unscrewed lets air go past the throttle, when its closed.
I'm unsure, if i'm even supposed to use the throttle adjusting idle screw, as this cant be reached with an ordinary screwdriver because of the throttle cable, but the air idle screw is very much reachable, as it is pointing upwards.

Unfortunately, they forgot to put the CDI in the package, so i'll have to wait another 1½ week for that to come i guess.

See the pictures for the parts, and for most of the parts connected.

I'm a little confused tho, about how to install the fuel tubes, as they have me 2 T-parts, but only 2 tubes, but this might show itself when i start installing the package in some time.

They even gave me a bolt to weld onto the exhaust for the Oxygen sensor!

[zombie]

All that Idle screw bother is wrong. The butterfly is actually the Primary air break. That gets set with a feeler gauge, and NEVER changes. The throttle position sender is also set to a specified voltage (usually.5v) and also Never changes. The idle speed is auto set by these two other adjustments, as well as EGT, and engine idle vacuum.
You're gonna be pulling out your hair bro. READ READ READ, untill your eyes bleed. Don't trust too many random posts either. Read some F.I. repair manuals, and service manuals. Stay away from the "how to" guides.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/about/optimax/
Start here, and follow your nose. Merc. Started it all

[baddi]

All that Idle screw bother is wrong. The butterfly is actually the Primary air break. That gets set with a feeler gauge, and NEVER changes. The throttle position sender is also set to a specified voltage (usually.5v) and also Never changes. The idle speed is auto set by these two other adjustments, as well as EGT, and engine idle vacuum.
You're gonna be pulling out your hair bro. READ READ READ, untill your eyes bleed. Don't trust too many random posts either. Read some F.I. repair manuals, and service manuals. Stay away from the "how to" guides.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/about/optimax/
Start here, and follow your nose. Merc. Started it all

Yeah, direct injection on a 2-stroke is the best invention ever, as it makes it alot more fuel and energy efficient, but unfortunately, the Aprilla SR50 with DiTech costs ALOT and is a hell to repair, if the engine fails (a guy on a danish forum bought a cheap DiTech, to repair, and ended up almost rebuilding the whole engine. The piston alone costs $180.)

I'm unsure on what you are saying, because the idle air is preset for a 125 engine, as this is the base calibration engine at Ecotrons, so i guess, that i should adjust the idle screw lower.

I've read Ecotrons manuals, and i'm still in search for a proper book on this subject.

A little update on the project:
I've removed the fuel tank from my old agility, so i can modify on this, but when i removed the vacuum valve, the fuel filter remained inside the engine. Also, the thread seems to be M15 or M16, as the inner diameter of the nut is little less than 15mm and the outer diameter of the bolt is a little over 15mm. Should this cause a problem, when installing a manual fuel valve?

[Shaka]

That filter is just stuck in there with that rubber grommet.  Just grab the filter with some needle nose pliers and pull it out.

[baddi]

That filter is just stuck in there with that rubber grommet.  Just grab the filter with some needle nose pliers and pull it out.

I'll do that during the weekend then.
Do anyone know any good books on motors on the internet in PDF version? (Yarr im i pirate.)

[zombie]

Here is a good place to start... I'll find a few Merc/Yamaha books, and some on programing the fuel control units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection
If your kit is calibrated for a 125cc you are already up against the wall. Either your injector will need changing, or the pulse width/duration in the ecu will need reprogramming... Unless it is a "smart" ecu that self calibrates for Vacuum/rpm/egt. I'm not a guru at injection, but I know enough to keep my Marine customers ALIVE. If My engines fail... People CAN NOT walk away.
You will have to use an adapter, or re tap the threads on your tank, as I am SURE your parts wont fit. I would use a manual tap, and a NEW bung welded to the TOP of the tank for return. Much less chance of vapor lok, and your fuel in the pickup will stay cooler/denser than the pre heated return from the injector. Just some basics but alot of links within the links. The last one is Yamaha PDF
http://www.maxrules.com/fixtheory2.html
http://orbit.dtu.dk/en/publications/experimental-and-numerical-investigation-of-sprays-in-two-stroke-diesel-engines(351aeb6a-c5e1-459d-98c3-ac7c00718b68).html
http://orbit.dtu.dk/en/publications/experimental-and-numerical-investigation-of-sprays-in-two-stroke-diesel-engines(351aeb6a-c5e1-459d-98c3-ac7c00718b68).html
http://www.synerject.com/modules.html
http://www.cdxetextbook.com/fuelSys/gasoline/efiOp/basicefiprinciples.html
http://automotiveenginemechanics.tpub.com/TM-9-8000/TM-9-80000173.htm
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/about/craftsmanship/technical_review/publish/no44/pdf/44gr03e.pdf

[zombie]

thread seems to be M15 or M16,

Forgot. There are two fuel taps used on all kymco 50cc. They are Both m16. One is fine thread, and the other is finer. 1.25, and 1.50. The 2t's use 1.50 I'd cross reference the part numbers on a Kymco parts site to see if yours is the same number as the 2t's

[baddi]

Here is a good place to start... I'll find a few Merc/Yamaha books, and some on programing the fuel control units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection
If your kit is calibrated for a 125cc you are already up against the wall. Either your injector will need changing, or the pulse width/duration in the ecu will need reprogramming... Unless it is a "smart" ecu that self calibrates for Vacuum/rpm/egt. I'm not a guru at injection, but I know enough to keep my Marine customers ALIVE. If My engines fail... People CAN NOT walk away.
You will have to use an adapter, or re tap the threads on your tank, as I am SURE your parts wont fit. I would use a manual tap, and a NEW bung welded to the TOP of the tank for return. Much less chance of vapor lok, and your fuel in the pickup will stay cooler/denser than the pre heated return from the injector. Just some basics but alot of links within the links. The last one is Yamaha PDF
http://www.maxrules.com/fixtheory2.html
http://orbit.dtu.dk/en/publications/experimental-and-numerical-investigation-of-sprays-in-two-stroke-diesel-engines(351aeb6a-c5e1-459d-98c3-ac7c00718b68).html
http://orbit.dtu.dk/en/publications/experimental-and-numerical-investigation-of-sprays-in-two-stroke-diesel-engines(351aeb6a-c5e1-459d-98c3-ac7c00718b68).html
http://www.synerject.com/modules.html
http://www.cdxetextbook.com/fuelSys/gasoline/efiOp/basicefiprinciples.html
http://automotiveenginemechanics.tpub.com/TM-9-8000/TM-9-80000173.htm
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/about/craftsmanship/technical_review/publish/no44/pdf/44gr03e.pdf

Thanks for the reading, now i have a place to start, as i really haven't been able to find anything technical reading material myself.

The calibration of the engine does not seem to be a big problem, its only the ECU, which are at 125cc as i got a smaller injector (38g/min instead of 80g/min) and the throttle body is 24mm, which in theory should work down to 30cc, but is not recommended to lower than 50cc as the air would have too low velocity.

The return fuel is in this case not coming from the injector, which shouldn't get very hot either, as it is indirect injection and not direct injection. Instead the fuel comes from the fuel pressure regulator, which sits between the fuel pump and the injector, so i dont think that the return fuel would get very hot at all, but i can be mistaken.

I quess i'll have to seach for a bung too, then.

[zombie]

You are already on top of the ball Bro!. Injector size is almost the same as jetting. BUT they are all different in their patterns. I don't have the numbers you may need but bOSCH is the universal injector KING. Some spray a mist, some spray a stream, and some spray a pellet of fuel. The numbers determine the spray pattern/velocity of the delivery. That is the "jetting" portion of the set up. Jets are 3-5 bucks, and injectors are 15-150 bucks. BUT... Messing with the Junk yard cars can save you alot of money, especially if you throw a few over the fence before going to the check out. (not that I would ever do such a thing...Just saying)

[zombie]

Forgot to say... Look up piston sizes for let's say Audi/Vw/Chevy?ford/whatever. Most of the 2.8 litre-4.3 litre engines use the same 39-50mm pistons as your scoot. The injector size per cylinder is what you are after. NOT the total displacement of a particular engine.
Another place to look is HGT. I don't know if I can vouch for the guy but He is one of the top Injection tuners in the US if not the world. He specializes in Apprilia SR 50's
http://highgaintuning.blogspot.com/2011/08/high-gain-tuning-releases-its-port-fuel_17.html

[zombie]

One more thing before bed..."Unfortunately, they forgot to put the CDI in the package, so i'll have to wait another 1½ week for that to come i guess."
I have been ordering parts for the ZX for the past 6 weeks. Most are here, and I can build today but I am waiting for EVERYTHING to be on my bench before starting.
Keep collecting your bits, and wait. It will turn out MUCH better.

[zombie]

Sleep tight tuner!