Not looking to start a riot

[08087]

Right, the government told the banks to take on bad loans.  That really makes sense...
Follow the money.  Who specifically in government made billions of dollars on the overextension of loans?  Who makes money from lack of oversight?  Who is/was offering loans that it knew it couldn't back?  Governments, of course, not banks and financial institutions.  
Who's still gambling OUR money on bad "investments", government, of course.  It's all a government conspiracy, right?
Read a real newspaper, listen to (oh no) NPR, read a history book.  

You come across as condescending and rude, I'm sure you’re not trying to but that's how you see (to me at least), let me introduce myself. My name in this forum is 08087 and you'll find you'll get a more polite response if you address the facts at hand and not express yourself as you have. Perhaps you don't care to be civil I don't know but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

Back to the topic, perhaps I have read your recommendation, perhaps you'll read these facts and report back.


Back to the topic, perhaps I have read your recomendation, perhaps you'll read these facts and report back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

According to one enforcement agency, "discrimination exists when a lender's underwriting policies contain arbitrary or outdated criteria that effectively disqualify many urban or lower-income minority applicants." Note that these "arbitrary or outdated criteria" include most of the essentials of responsible lending: income level, income verification, credit history and savings history--the very factors lenders are now being criticized for ignoring.

[gregspeople250]

Communication failure here.  I think we're talking past each other a bit.  I hold private industrial banking greed responsible for most of the present financial mess we're living through.  Since the '80's we've been deregulating the banking industry, allowing them to lower the hurdle to lending.  We've allowed them to get into more and more areas where risk is real.  And here's my real rub; The cynical and myopic way that this (and other) industries have managed to get average people to vote against their own good.  So many of us complain about the big bad government, while not saying a word about the folks that truly run this government; private industry.  Why aren't we paying for elections with tax money?  Why do we allow companies to be personages with rights? Why do we even listen to quick/easy solutions to very involved problems ("Just kick the bums out!", "It's all the _______'s (fill in the blank with your favorite group) fault!"  Why don't people follow the money?  This country is about money, follow it.  Who has more money, the banks or groups fighting for the rights of borrowers?  Who has more money, Exxon/Mobile or the entire green energy industry?  Who has more money to lose by changing the present energy balance (90% oil/coal/natural gas), the oil industry or the climate scientists that have proved several times over that climate change is happening? 
End of screed rev 2...

[Vivo]

Why? its because when somebody starts a campaign and follow the money, part of it trickles to his pockets, then he smiles and develops amnesia. Then we're back where we started. Another vicious cycle.


@ axy: Criminals in our country are even more creative than government. Kidnappers nowadays don't
           ask for ransom anymore. They just negotiate and ask for "board and lodging" payments.

[08087]

Communication failure here.  I think we're talking past each other a bit.  I hold private industrial banking greed responsible for most of the present financial mess we're living through.  Since the '80's we've been deregulating the banking industry, allowing them to lower the hurdle to lending.  We've allowed them to get into more and more areas where risk is real.  And here's my real rub; The cynical and myopic way that this (and other) industries have managed to get average people to vote against their own good.  So many of us complain about the big bad government, while not saying a word about the folks that truly run this government; private industry.  Why aren't we paying for elections with tax money?  Why do we allow companies to be personages with rights? Why do we even listen to quick/easy solutions to very involved problems ("Just kick the bums out!", "It's all the _______'s (fill in the blank with your favorite group) fault!"  Why don't people follow the money?  This country is about money, follow it.  Who has more money, the banks or groups fighting for the rights of borrowers?  Who has more money, Exxon/Mobile or the entire green energy industry?  Who has more money to lose by changing the present energy balance (90% oil/coal/natural gas), the oil industry or the climate scientists that have proved several times over that climate change is happening? 
End of screed rev 2...

You had me until the climate change crappola. Climate change BS (IMO) is just that, the climate changes all the time, lets go back to what they and Al Gore originally called it until they got called on it. Global warming, once it was found that the tems. fluctuate all the time, not to mention ice ages heat waves etc... they changed it to climate change. So now what "they" want to do and are doing in some places is charging you for your globle footprint or a tax for breathing, let alone using a car, bike truck etc. They say that cows contribute to global warming with CO output. What will they tax next?

No doubt that big gov. is pretty much run by big business and also that very few people even have a clue let alone a handle on how it all works, but to fall into the trap of climate gate/control is the latest greatest biggest tax crap yet to come. buying and selling CO credits.

And we are talking past one another to a certain extent but you still got away with telling people to "READ" NPR and didn't even mention the link or paragraph I listed as factual support for my point of view.

No doubt that the bankers pushed for less and less regulation but our elected officers caved in and not only gave it to them but mandated the push for bankrupting the country and then bailed them out. It was all a plan for sure, I have zero doubt about that, they work hand in hand. For now we must get them out (politicians) but until the people of the world are ready to rise up together we will all continue to suffer the same fate.

[gregspeople250]

Last message for me.
There was a comma between read and NPR, two different details.
RAPID climate change IS A FACT.  Even Chevron now admits.  They support a carbon credit tax.  Some of us in this country are hold outs that there is no human activity connection.  I believe are for a few reasons, primarily because large energy firms have fought it and many of us don't want to believe that we are reason for climate change.  Chevron's previous CEO openly states he financed the very small group of outlier climate scientists that saw a buck in being outside the huge majority.  It's not that the earth's climate hasn't changed over history, it's that the climate is changing at ~100X faster than any recorded data.  The recorded data comes from ice cores and other (I don't recall exactly what: earth excavations?) records. 
Thanks for jousting with me.  It's been fun and I like people with a sense of accountability and reason.
Enjoy scooting!

[08087]

Last message for me.
There was a comma between read and NPR, two different details.
RAPID climate change IS A FACT.  Even Chevron now admits.  They support a carbon credit tax.  Some of us in this country are hold outs that there is no human activity connection.  I believe are for a few reasons, primarily because large energy firms have fought it and many of us don't want to believe that we are reason for climate change.  Chevron's previous CEO openly states he financed the very small group of outlier climate scientists that saw a buck in being outside the huge majority.  It's not that the earth's climate hasn't changed over history, it's that the climate is changing at ~100X faster than any recorded data.  The recorded data comes from ice cores and other (I don't recall exactly what: earth excavations?) records. 
Thanks for jousting with me.  It's been fun and I like people with a sense of accountability and reason.
Enjoy scooting!

Not sure why your bowing out of this conversation, how else can we all learn? By the way YOU DON"T NEED TO YELL, I hear you just fine when speak in normal tones. Maybe Chevron is going along with the program (I don't know if they are or not) because they were promised a tax cut or some other financial incentive.

Why may I ask then did a bunch of scientist get caught up in a forgery scandal over global warming numbers if the evidence is so overwhelming? And it is also a fact that while some glaciers are receding some are gaining in size. There is also talk that polar  North and South may flip one day soon, will that be the fault of mankind?

[zombie]

Ask the people of Iceland if warming is happening. By 2014 they will have to rename it Rockland. I 100% agree it is sped up expodentially by removein materials from the earth, and replacing them with mud if anything at all. Take any multi viscus item... Drain it of its core elements, and replace the elements with mud. FAILURE. That is what WE have done to the Earth. Simple.
The earth quakes mentioned on another thread... Direct consequences of OUR actions. The Earth is crumbling beneath us and some have the BALLS to say it's not us... Go back to High School, and take a few more physics classes.

[08087]

Ask the people of Iceland if warming is happening. By 2014 they will have to rename it Rockland. I 100% agree it is sped up expodentially by removein materials from the earth, and replacing them with mud if anything at all. Take any multi viscus item... Drain it of its core elements, and replace the elements with mud. FAILURE. That is what WE have done to the Earth. Simple.
The earth quakes mentioned on another thread... Direct consequences of OUR actions. The Earth is crumbling beneath us and some have the BALLS to say it's not us... Go back to High School, and take a few more physics classes.

Let me go back and look at all the earthquakes that took place BC and see if it was because we were taking from the earth? I don't think so.

I wonder if the sun is getting hotter because all the CO being produced from the gasses that are burning off every second of every minute of every 24 hr day, that's right, when the sun goes down it continues to burn.. Still want on an answer as to why those scientist had to forge the results.

And no need for the go back to HS insult, all because someone doesn't agree with you is no reason to show your limitations to the world.

[streido]

Still want on an answer as to why those scientist had to forge the results.

What results were forged? 

A group of climate scientists had their email accounts hacked and their contents were stolen/copied by the hackers. Nothing was forged? The emails contained private and work related correspondence between various scientists around the world, but nothing controversial. After finding nothing usefull whoever it was that hired the hackers released portions of them, which were taken out of context, to try create a story where there was none. They wanted to create confusion amoungst the general public, to muddy the waters, to use smoke and mirrors to give the illusion something was not right here, and they succeeded. If you read thro the whole email the "controversial" section was taken from, and know the context in which it was meant, then there is no controversy. Nada. There are plenty of websites listing the whole emails and comparing that to the extracts you can see how they tricked many people into believing there was fraud or lies being carried out,but there actually wasnt.

Why did the hackers do this? Money probably. No doubt they were hired by some climate deniers to steal the emails and hand them over for a fee. Now we need to find out who paid the hackers? At the heart of it its got to be big oil, gas or someone who needs the oil and gas business to continue as is. Someone who wants to delay or derail any and all climate safeguards and carbon controls, someone who wants to distract and confuse the general public,or at least plant a seed it may not be a problem after all. The public dont want it to be real, we like things as they are, we like our comforts,we dont want to change, so if you then offer up the possibility that it may be ok,"prove" its all lies, some people will jump at it. 

Why? To keep the oil and gas flowing,to keep the wheel turning, to keep the money flowing in and to stop anyone from slowing it down or causing problems.

Read the full emails and read the science, its real, honest 

Btw, 8 committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Meteorological Society and the Union of Concerned Scientists  released statements supporting the scientific consensus that the Earth's mean surface temperature had been rising for decades, with the AAAS concluding "based on multiple lines of scientific evidence that global climate change caused by human activities is now underway...it is a growing threat to society."

[streido]

Its also no surprise that it was Fox "news" that pushed the story initially,no other mainstream press covered it untill Fox create the stir.

[zombie]

Yeah! so there!

[hippiebrian]

Again, it amazes me how much people will not only ignore scientific evidence based on what some tea-bagging non-scientist tells them to think, but how much they will ignore common sense.

CO2 in the atmosphere holds in heat: that's basically it's job.  Methane holds heat even better, however it dissipates more quickly.  We have been dumping both into the atmosphere for 200 years, expodentially increasing it over the last 100.  We are causing the rapid rise in the earth's temperature, obvioulsy and unargueably.  There have been ice cores taken out of the artic that go back 160,000 years http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/globalwarmA.html indicate that this is the quickest the earth has wormed up in at least that time, and that covers a lot of ice ages and subsequent warmings.

If you are reading any anti-global warming research, please look at who is financing this research.  I will guarentee you it is some company, usually an oil company, who is financing it, because the oil industry stands to lose a lot of money when we finally start to take global warming seriously.  I just hope it's not too late...

[zombie]

Take this for what it is. There is a fella that lives here. His name is Billy Parker. This guy is world renowned for the lumber he recovers from lakes/rivers/the Gulf of Mexico. The trees he recovers have been under water for as much as 200 years. The value is unreal.
Now the important part. The Oldest lumber has TINY growth rings. Making the wood stronger/denser. The same species harvested today has Massive growth rings. Making the wood weaker/less dense.
Billy explains it this way... Back when these old growth trees were living there was Much less CO2 in the atmosphere. The trees grew slower/stronger. Now with polution their is Much more CO2, and the trees are shooting up like weeds.
If the forrests were left as is the trees would negate alot of the Global Warming effects. But since the trees are being cut the CO2 has no natural opposition, and increases. Guess where that takes us...

[ce]

What's all this about endangered feces?

Who wants to save that stuff anyway? I mean, come on, you think there's not enough to go around?

With all this global worming going on, there should be feces everywhere, a little over here, a little over there, a BIG PILE OF STEAMING, HEAPING...

What?

Endangered species? That's not the same at all.

Never mind.

[zombie]

Glad you figured that out Ce! You would have looked dumb.