Alternative Fuel or Electric?

[Vivo]

Would you rather search for alternative fuels to run your internal combustion engine or concentrate in developing and perfecting electric powered vehicles and have a transition from petrol to electric vehicles. Hybrids are here, Electrics are here but still there are researches on alternative fuels.

If electrics become perfect and efficient, would you shift to electric and throw your 2t/4t out?

Personally, I would wish for alternative fuel and retain my 4t.

[ts1]

Alternative fuel! BtL (bio to liquid) like bioethanol. We have an increasing number of petrol stations selling E85 (and I use it, see several threads), it's really now and not only future.

If you generate electricity by solar or wind, store it in synthesized methan or hydrogen, and burn it again to generate electricity, you actually get about 30-40% overall efficiency (in a stationary system). A nice idea to store the occasionally surplass electric energy production.

Our military uses fuel cells since 2002 (i.e. submarine class 212A), the technology is complicated and expensive, but feasible.
Perhaps we see affordable fuel cell cars in the future. The efficieny could improve to 40-50%.

Direct storage of electric energy has physical and chemical limits. I don't epect any outstanding progress in this research field. If there is any idea, the military uses it decades prior to the public.

[axy]

Would you rather search for alternative fuels to run your internal combustion engine or concentrate in developing and perfecting electric powered vehicles and have a transition from petrol to electric vehicles. Hybrids are here, Electrics are here but still there are researches on alternative fuels.

If electrics become perfect and efficient, would you shift to electric and throw your 2t/4t out?

Personally, I would wish for alternative fuel and retain my 4t.

Electricity is perfectly efficient, several times more than fossil fuels.
The only problem is that to get that electricity you need to invest twice or three times the amount of energy units in fossil fuels.
Nice fad, nice proving ground for science, but no real purpose.

p.s. Hybrids are the biggest bs in automotive industry in the past 15 year.

[08087]

E85 can't be run in most eng. it is costly to produce, with a great deal of polution and rasies the cost of (in the US) corn, chicken and any other farm animal that feeds on corn. Sugar has become more expensive because they use sugar cane in Brasil for "E" fuel.


I have no doubt that electric cars can be made to operate well and far better then current models, we can make it cheaper but then there's no money in it for the large corp's.

[adelinejames0]

Well As you think that electric is alternative option of fuel that is true because now a days use of fuel is going hike. We have already many power so we can use it. Either we are taking battery back up or use another  way for using electric insted of  fule. 

[Vivo]

One good source of ethanol is the cassava plant. Getting ethanol from cassava is easier and cheaper than from corn or sugarcane. Our family started this project in 1983 with 12,000 hectares (30,000 acres) of land with a projected ethanol production of 130,000 liters or around 34,000 gallons a day. We had an approved loan from a government bank but when the bank stopped releasing money to us, for some reason or another, production stopped. Some very influencial persons who felt that our business is a threat to them were said to be behind this.

[adelinejames0]

One good source of ethanol is the cassava plant. Getting ethanol from cassava is easier and cheaper than from corn or sugarcane. Our family started this project in 1983 with 12,000 hectares (30,000 acres) of land with a projected ethanol production of 130,000 liters or around 34,000 gallons a day. We had an approved loan from a government bank but when the bank stopped releasing money to us, for some reason or another, production stopped. Some very influencial persons who felt that our business is a threat to them were said to be behind this.

It is really very nice invention with great efforts. To do something different need different thought. Using ethanol alternative option is really very nice. 

[08087]

One good source of ethanol is the cassava plant. Getting ethanol from cassava is easier and cheaper than from corn or sugarcane. Our family started this project in 1983 with 12,000 hectares (30,000 acres) of land with a projected ethanol production of 130,000 liters or around 34,000 gallons a day. We had an approved loan from a government bank but when the bank stopped releasing money to us, for some reason or another, production stopped. Some very influencial persons who felt that our business is a threat to them were said to be behind this.

Have you/family ever thought about private investers? I have no idea what the taxes on 30,000 acres would be where your from but I guess all the math was done and it would have been fairly profitable? I'd enjoy seeing a breakdown of the numbers if you don't mind sharing.

[hippiebrian]

Drop in fuels may be one of the answers...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/colleen-becker/drop-in-biofuels_b_1556162.html?ref=energy

[zombie]

My buddy Carl reads that Huffington post. They also said that 911 was all faked, and the CIA planted bombs in the buildings. Have you been smoking weed for 40 years like Carl?
Bio fuel is Ethanol. It is NOT a drop in fuel. Bio Diesel is a drop in fuel but there are almost NO diesel powered cars in the US.
I would like to see the Govt. owned/people financed vehicles converted to any other sort of fuel but since the US is The ONLY country not willing to give up Fossil fuel...Oh well!

[hippiebrian]

My buddy Carl reads that Huffington post. They also said that 911 was all faked, and the CIA planted bombs in the buildings. Have you been smoking weed for 40 years like Carl?
Bio fuel is Ethanol. It is NOT a drop in fuel. Bio Diesel is a drop in fuel but there are almost NO diesel powered cars in the US.
I would like to see the Govt. owned/people financed vehicles converted to any other sort of fuel but since the US is The ONLY country not willing to give up Fossil fuel...Oh well!

I don't know where your buddy Carl got his conspiracy theory 9-11 was fake theory, but it wasn't the Huff Post.  And no, I haven't smoked anything that will get me high since the 80's.

Read the article, they are not talking about ethanol.  In actuality, there is enough hydrocarbon in almost any living or dead thing that can be extracted as gasoline given the right refining methods.  What they are talking about is something so similar to gasoline that your engine would not know the difference, unlike ethanol.  Also this would not corrode like ethanol does. 

[08087]

So who thinks Oswald shot JFK?

[zombie]

Personally I believe IC engines have run their course. The future is in hydrogen cell/hydraulic/electro magnet engines. http://hydroreacteur.com/pat3969214.pdf

[Vivo]

Have you/family ever thought about private investers? I have no idea what the taxes on 30,000 acres would be where your from but I guess all the math was done and it would have been fairly profitable? I'd enjoy seeing a breakdown of the numbers if you don't mind sharing.

The land was leased from the government. We were doing them a favor to make use of the land that's why we got our loan approved easy and we had a friend in Government who helped us. A former Supreme Court judge. The feasibility study was also a solid one and the projected ROI was only 5 years.  It was very difficult to get private local investors during that time because (1) The project cost was too big (2) Investors during that time prefer high security investments and invest money abroad. (3) That was the Marcos era. Remember our dictator and American puppet who declared Martial Law and ruled for more than 20 years? His wife decided that all government money must be used for the Tourism Industry. Nobody would also show their money and attempt to invest because the Marcoses are looking. We almost closed a deal with one German investor but didn't push thru.  All efforts in searching also required money. The project deteriorated. The  plant and equipment became old. Our workers seeked work elsewhere. Grass took over the area. Our friend in government died. We needed more money to look for money. My father also had to seek other source of income. He became a consultant for a sugar refinery in the Middle East and totally left the ethanol business.  That was in 1983 and the money needed then was around 18 million dollars. How much do you think it will cost now?


Well, if that project continued, I would have my own island now and won't be scootering on a Taiwanese scoot now, would I. Destiny....


BTW, all documents were left in the province. Remember, some things were still not computerized then.   

[zombie]

Brazil is the largest producer of Eth.. Perhaps that would be the direction to look for funding. I believe you have the same climate as well.?.