Author Topic: Death Penalty  (Read 7181 times)

Vivo

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Death Penalty
« on: June 09, 2012, 07:20:40 AM »
DEATH PENALTY..

Does it really deter crime? Stop would be criminals from doing any crime?

Does it lower crime rate?

Is it morally right? Who decides who dies? The Law?

They say the gas chamber is the "Humane" way to kill? It's still killing..
Maybe cutting a hand, arm, or leg would be more of a deterrent than death. The person will really see his penalty and others will be always reminded.



What if the criminal has a potential to be reformed?


Before, we had the death penalty in our country, now, no more.  There's no difference.


I have a mixed opinion on this. Dunno about you guys.....




axy

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 08:26:22 AM »
DEATH PENALTY..

Does it really deter crime? Stop would be criminals from doing any crime?

Does it lower crime rate?

Is it morally right? Who decides who dies? The Law?

They say the gas chamber is the "Humane" way to kill? It's still killing..
Maybe cutting a hand, arm, or leg would be more of a deterrent than death. The person will really see his penalty and others will be always reminded.


What if the criminal has a potential to be reformed?


Before, we had the death penalty in our country, now, no more.  There's no difference.


I have a mixed opinion on this. Dunno about you guys.....

Strange, but I have no opinion on that but I also think it would not be a deterrent.
Until recently life sentence here was 20 years, and it was a few years ago extended to 40 for extremely severe crimes, usually murder(s).
We have not had death penalty for decades.

If you take a look at the list of countries that have death penalty, you will see that it is most often used in a strange combination of countries: USA, China, Japan and a mixture of obscure Middle Eastern and African regimes, while USA and China are the only ones executing minors.
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Vivo

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 08:46:53 AM »
strange combination of countries: USA, China, Japan and a mixture of obscure Middle Eastern and African regimes


 :D :D :D




streido

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 02:59:12 PM »
Doesnt deter crime, doesnt lower crime rates and isnt humane. Makes you no better than them.
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08087

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 06:57:02 PM »
My emotional response is to keep the death penalty.

However thinking it through I would only keep it in extremely rare instances. First we must be absolutely sure the person to be executed is 100% guilty of the crime.

I like the idea of other countries of offing a hand or a penis in cases of rape, but again this only works when you are 100% sure they are guilty. I'd hate to lop off someone’s hand that wasn't really the one taking that bar of soap.

You can't give back the time you took from a prisoner but that's better than trying to give back a hand or penis.

I like the idea of public flogging or stocks in town square.

To answer the other part of the question, NO the death penalty does not deter crime.

I'd like to place them all on an island, give them internet access and farm tools, let them provide for themselves, if they fail to they die, simple as that.
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axy

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 07:54:48 PM »

I'd like to place them all on an island, give them internet access and farm tools, let them provide for themselves, if they fail to they die, simple as that.


Already done here, shut down at the end of 80s. Too bad, I say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok

My hometown is shown in the upper left corner.
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08087

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 10:48:25 PM »
Already done here, shut down at the end of 80s. Too bad, I say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok

My hometown is shown in the upper left corner.

Not the same as what I mentioned. I'm not for forced labor, just keep them out of the general population, if they kill one another then too bad for them, if you want separate islands for different offenders (rapest, murderers, major crimes) then fine. But I don't want to support them, if their family wants to visit them let them let them flip the bill, if their too poor then too bad. I'm tired of paying.
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axy

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2012, 07:56:19 AM »
Not the same as what I mentioned. I'm not for forced labor, just keep them out of the general population, if they kill one another then too bad for them, if you want separate islands for different offenders (rapest, murderers, major crimes) then fine. But I don't want to support them, if their family wants to visit them let them let them flip the bill, if their too poor then too bad. I'm tired of paying.

Well, in USA many prisons are owned by private corporations and there is big money in running the business. That's why incarceration rates are skyrocketing in USA.
Guys in Washington clearly disagree with you and they would like to see even more people in (=more money for those running the facilities = more money (bribe) for lobbyists).
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ce

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 02:55:27 PM »
That's just stupid, "Big Prison" lobbyists in Washington to get more prisoners to lock up and profit from.

There's more prisoners because there's more crime, because people aren't afraid to go to prison, and all their friends are already in prison, so it's a big free ride party, and you even get free tattoos.

Start executing criminals and pretty soon they're in short supply, and anyone who commits a crime, well, the "Big Execution" business is going to have scaffolds ready to go, no waiting, step right up  and say hello to Saddam Hussein,

Next.

Who's next? Anybody?

Damn, can't seem to find any criminals any more, looks like crime does not pay.
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axy

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 05:56:11 PM »
That's just stupid, "Big Prison" lobbyists in Washington to get more prisoners to lock up and profit from.

There's more prisoners because there's more crime, because people aren't afraid to go to prison, and all their friends are already in prison, so it's a big free ride party, and you even get free tattoos.

Start executing criminals and pretty soon they're in short supply, and anyone who commits a crime, well, the "Big Execution" business is going to have scaffolds ready to go, no waiting, step right up  and say hello to Saddam Hussein,

Next.

Who's next? Anybody?

Damn, can't seem to find any criminals any more, looks like crime does not pay.

China and Saudi Arabia are not far from what you described. Guess what, there is still crime.
Would you really like to see Saudi recipee applied in the land of the free?
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08087

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 08:11:09 PM »
Well, in USA many prisons are owned by private corporations and there is big money in running the business. That's why incarceration rates are skyrocketing in USA.
Guys in Washington clearly disagree with you and they would like to see even more people in (=more money for those running the facilities = more money (bribe) for lobbyists).

Some yes, many no.

How is it that "guys" in Washington disagree?
Crime in big cities of the US is rampant, what's worse is that many crimes go unpublished in our media sometimes the vast majority of certain crimes.
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axy

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2012, 08:57:21 PM »
Some yes, many no.

How is it that "guys" in Washington disagree?
Crime in big cities of the US is rampant, what's worse is that many crimes go unpublished in our media sometimes the vast majority of certain crimes.


I saw your other post.

Most of the issues you are facing are in fact direct consequence of the free market system, very same system that made The American Dream after WWII possible. You have extremely low taxes, consequently compared to (Western) European standards very poorly developed social network (in terms of social care and transfers, security of employment etc.) and direct consequences of fully liberal system are gangs, inequality, ghettos, suburban poverty and violence. I have never visited USA but have been watching movies, documentaries and reading on the subject for the better part of my life. Not so long time ago you had slavery and only 50 years ago segregation in some states. This is complex heritage that does not exist in that form in Europe and many things can be traced back half a century or century ago. Furthermore, do not forget that USA as a nation is very new and it is a "melting pot" of many other nations while in Europe most countries have large majority of one nation (and single race!) and all others are minorities. In my city there are sites and castles that are 2000+ years old. It is much different situation than living in a country where "old" means 100 or 200 years.

Of course, there are many immigrants from Africa (ex. colonies) in France and a lot of immigrants in UK, so much that they want sharia law zones. However, I do not think that ghettoization is so widespread. You will not see suburban slams with just one group or race in Europe (in Italy, Germany, Austria, Spain, Portugal...or even my country) The only exception are Roma people (you'd probably call them Gypsies).

I think that you are just seeing the beginning of all these trends. De-industrialization is all over the place, we (The People from the West) decided we will shut down industry, provide services to each other and do some research and produce a bit of know how here and there and some poor people across the globe in China, India or Bangladesh will work for us. USA has paved the way, Europe has followed and in that order we will pay the price. There are ghost towns like Detroit in Europe too, especially in eastern part of Germany (for different reasons though, stemming from unification of Germany).

It truly comes down to lack of education, to poverty, to "thug lifestyle" as 2pac would put it... and it becomes rooted in certain nation or culture.

I think we will see more and more ghettos as the things will progress. The company I work for is a small multinational company (40K employees, part of bigger 80K employee holding) and we work in countries where foreign companies are almost above the law, everything happens smoothly for expats, there is a local "partner" who is in charge to "grease a few palms", isolation between our people working somewhere and locals is complete... we are entering very uncertain future, much different than Keynesian welfare state we all enjoyed in one form or another in 50's, 60's and 70's, future where there will be more emphasis on the power of corporations and corporate-government complex (you've had that for decades!) and much less on race, nation or something like that.

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08087

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2012, 09:43:57 PM »
I saw your other post.

I don't know where to start with a response. You went all over the place so I'll stick to the basics.

The operations of a country are very complex, on one hand if you are strictly capitalist you run the risk of losing those that can't keep up or having monopolies.

On the other hand if you have too many social programs (as some in the US now feel we do) you run the risk of driving away the capitalists with high taxes.

So the flow from low taxes and higher taxes seem to ebb and flow, rise and fall over time as a way of keeping things even.

I hope we all see the problem with a socialistic society, no incentive to excel!

I'm not sure about your points on slavery and segregation, hell in many, many instances we segregate ourselves, most blacks don't want to live with whites and vice versa, the races are that different. Now on an individual basis that can't be further from the truth, but as a group we tend to live in separate large groups.
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juice

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2012, 09:53:39 PM »
Alternative formsrabble rouser
[edit] Nounrabble-rouser (plural rabble-rousers)

1.A person who tries to stir up masses of people for political action by appealing to their emotions rather than their reason. A demagogue.

08087

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2012, 11:30:45 PM »
Alternative formsrabble rouser
[edit] Nounrabble-rouser (plural rabble-rousers)

1.A person who tries to stir up masses of people for political action by appealing to their emotions rather than their reason. A demagogue.


Perhaps you can bring something worth while to the conversation instead of accusing ohters of being trools.
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