Are scooters more dangerous than motorcyles?

[Scootin4Jesus]

Quick question, I bought a 300cc people and the finance from Sheffield gave me like 8.9 percent, isn't this a little ridiculous?

[Vivo]

A knew a biker once. He rides big 600 - 1000cc bikes... but died on a scooter....

[Oldscoot]

A knew a biker once. He rides big 600 - 1000cc bikes... but died on a scooter....

There have to be statistics somewhere in the insurance industry or in government that address the question. anecdotal data is sketchy at best.  My own sense of it is that a motorcycle is more powerful and heavier and a person rides a motorcycle faster and in more dangerous environments than a scooter and therefore any accident is more severe. On the other hand a brand new rider, like a kid, may just hop on a scooter and ride off with no respect or understanding of the machine. In the end it's simply a matter of f=ma.  


 

 

[axy]

There have to be statistics somewhere in the insurance industry or in government that address the question. anecdotal data is sketchy at best.  My own sense of it is that a motorcycle is more powerful and heavier and a person rides a motorcycle faster and in more dangerous environments than a scooter and therefore any accident is more severe. On the other hand a brand new rider, like a kid, may just hop on a scooter and ride off with no respect or understanding of the machine. In the end it's simply a matter of f=ma.  
 

Regular bikes (naked, sport tourer) and bigger scooters are driven around the same average speed. Scooters are usually well above 80 % of their powerband while bikes are probably below 30 %. Also, all scooters have crappy touring tires and the cheapest possible brakes and suspension, and poor geometry while even the cheapest naked/sport tourers >500 cc have better geometry, tires, brakes and suspension than scooters.

[Vivo]

Big bike riders are usually older, more mature and responsible compared to a teener riding a derestricted scoot thinking he's invincible!

[Oldscoot]

Regular bikes (naked, sport tourer) and bigger scooters are driven around the same average speed. Scooters are usually well above 80 % of their powerband while bikes are probably below 30 %. Also, all scooters have crappy touring tires and the cheapest possible brakes and suspension, and poor geometry while even the cheapest naked/sport tourers >500 cc have better geometry, tires, brakes and suspension than scooters.

I believe that in theory you are correct. For example, if the speed limit is 30 mph, and both riders are obeying the law, that a scooter rider on a Buddy 50 cc and a rider on a Kawasaki ZX-14R will both end up going 30 mph.  However, how long it takes to reach 0-30 mph can be different and when you look at fatal motorcycle accidents - traveling at excessive speed is often part of the scenario. Forty-eight years of riding have led me to believe that riders of big bikes tend to ride faster than riders of scooters. I've toured on a Burgman 650 with other maxi-scoots bikes and I've toured on a Harley Softail with other Harleys - we rode a lot faster on the Harleys. Admittedly this is just my personal observation - subject of course to data to the contrary. In the end it probably comes down to the attitude, experience, skill and knowledge of the bike on the part of the rider that makes the difference.         

     

 

 

[gregspeople250]

One of the reasons I like scoot's so much is that I don't have to keep my braking/clutch-slip skills at the level of a motorcycle rider to maintain teh same level of rider safety.  I believe a person needs to ride their motorcycle often and should know its limits to be safe.  Track days are a great place to learn the limits on motorcycles.
Scoot' brakes, in particular, are easier to modulate given that they are both controlled by hands.  The foot-operated rear brake on motorcycle is especially easy to lock up if a rider is not riding regularly to maintain their skill level.  There's a reason we don't regularly use our feet to do fine motor skill work...
Throw in ABS on a scoot' and you really have an easy to ride and safe-as-possible two-wheeled vehicle.
Lastly, the high weight (CG) on motorcycles makes them a little harder to change direction on in an emergency.
YMMV, and I have no problem with disagreement with my synopsis from personal experience.

[Oldscoot]

One of the reasons I like scoot's so much is that I don't have to keep my braking/clutch-slip skills at the level of a motorcycle rider to maintain teh same level of rider safety.  I believe a person needs to ride their motorcycle often and should know its limits to be safe.  Track days are a great place to learn the limits on motorcycles.
Scoot' brakes, in particular, are easier to modulate given that they are both controlled by hands.  The foot-operated rear brake on motorcycle is especially easy to lock up if a rider is not riding regularly to maintain their skill level.  There's a reason we don't regularly use our feet to do fine motor skill work...


I agree with you.  Anything that cuts down on operational complexity and reaction time will likely result in a safer operation if you use that additional time to concentrate on the job on hand. Don't let the ease of operation lull you into a Margaritaville state of relaxation because as I've always said f=ma - and hitting a wall at 30mph on a scooter will still result in grief even though it was just a scooter.

       


Throw in ABS on a scoot' and you really have an easy to ride and safe-as-possible two-wheeled vehicle.
Lastly, the high weight (CG) on motorcycles makes them a little harder to change direction on in an emergency.
YMMV, and I have no problem with disagreement with my synopsis from personal experience.

[axy]

Scoot' brakes, in particular, are easier to modulate given that they are both controlled by hands. 

Any benefit from this is greatly offset by poor brakes and crappy disc pads. For most scoots you cannot even buy performance brake parts or they are extremely difficult to find and in the end, the best performance parts are usually worse than OEM parts on bikes.

Also, even though what you say sounds logical, most problems you will encounter in real life situations are caused by rear brake being applied TOO LIGHTLY, not too hard.

[gregspeople250]

Even more reason for ABS.  Squeeze as hard as you can and let the microprocessor and modulator do their job.

[Vivo]

The psychological factor of this is also a reason. Most small modified scoots are loud and quick and gives the rider a feeling of WOW! adrenalin rush takes over safety is forgotten. They're quick, yes, fast on the road? at 60mph, its still slow compared to all the cars or even a big bike sharing the same road. The attitude is different. The scooter rider thinks he's the king and can outrun everybody on the road.. he's wrong...

[cnydreamr]

Even more reason for ABS.  Squeeze as hard as you can and let the microprocessor and modulator do their job.

Not sure on some scooters/motorcycles, but "abs" on a chinese scoot is usually just a limiting valve, not true or usable abs. It only allows just so much pressure through the valve to the caliper.

[Oldscoot]

Not sure on some scooters/motorcycles, but "abs" on a chinese scoot is usually just a limiting valve, not true or usable abs. It only allows just so much pressure through the valve to the caliper.

This forum is not about cheap Chinese bikes.  I think a fun discussion  would be whether the People 300 GTi is safer than a mid-sized, modern, Japanese motorcycle?   In this regard IMHO I believe the simplicity of operation of the GTi gives it an edge in faster reaction time.

     

[KentonLynne]

Don't know how "scientific" this observation is, but I just completed a motorcycle safety course for experienced riders.   It was me (with my  GTi300) and two younger dudes (in their 30's -- I'm 59) both riding very nice Harleys.   Even though I've only got 5 years experience riding two-wheelers (an only one month on my Kymco) I was able to negotiate the exercises (quick-stopping, cone-weaving, 2x4 jumping, tight/fast turns and obstacle avoidance) somewhat better than the guys on their Harleys.   I think no small part of that was not having to worry about a clutch and shifting gears while doing these exercises.   Plus the GTi just seemed generally nimbler in its handling (being about 300 pounds lighter certainly helps).  But my impression is that if these exercises are typical of emergency situations required to avoid an accident, I'm confident I and my GTi would handle those situations better than these guys on their Harleys. 

[mrpackerguy]

I'm no expert, and have only been seriously riding two wheelers for not quite a year.  But my take on basic city commuting is that scooters are safer.  I took the MSF course late last summer, then promptly sold my super 8 150 (big mistake) and purchased a 1982 Yamaha 750 Maxim.  Since May, I've been commuting regularly into work with the bike and also with an Agility 150 I picked up.  I've really gone to the Agility as the go-to commuting two wheeler 1)  based on feeling safer in traffic (just don't have to downshift as much) and 2) twice the fuel economy (80mpg vs 40).

I have a 13 mi commute one-way on roads ranging from city stop and go to 4 lane boulevards and from 25mph speed limits to 40mph.  The Agility keeps up with traffic no problem at all and is just as quick off the line.  I feel safer and more in control on the Agility only having to worry about braking with my hands, vs shifting and breaking and clutching.  My big thing was being able to keep up with traffic and space myself between vehicles safely and the Agility lets me do that as much as the bike, so it's a no-brainer.

The only thing that bothers me on the Agility is that the seat sucks and my ass is sore after 7 minutes or so.