electricity problems in kymco Agility 125

[CROSSBOLT]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Should spin very easily with plug out. Should slow down a great deal with the plug in.

Karl

[kymcoco]

Google has given me: "It's also possible that there is a problem with the carburetor and if so you may need to remove it and clean it out. If the scooter has been sitting for a few months with gas in the carburetor, the gas may have evaporated and left a sticky "gum" behind that will prevent the carburetor from working properly and which must be removed."

Do you agree with that? Could it be the case?
Another thing is that the regulator is currently disconnected, but it shouldn't have impact on starting, no?

[CROSSBOLT]

Regulator should not have an impact on starting as it does not come into play until engine is running. Yes, a gummed up carb will definitely cause hard or no starting.

Karl

[kymcoco]

OMG, so the electricity problem is still not resolved...
Before I started with the carb cleaning (it would take a long time.. ), I'd got a start pilote spray (start fluid) and given it a chance.
Result: The engine gave a cough only once (anyway a pleasure to hear it at least once after so long time!), the fuse is burnt.
As soon as I find some energy, I check the wiring diagram again ..

[CROSSBOLT]

I told you do not use a bigger fuse. I believe I also said to solve the electrical problem first. You have to take a LOGICAL approach to these kind of problems. One may get lucky and just stumble on a cause by random checks but it usually is just a waste of time. Once you find something you then have to prove it. One of the reasons forums work pretty well is it is a pooling of experience and a person unfamiliar with any device can learn a bunch of things IF THEY LISTEN. You are back to square one on the gameboard. Your move.

Karl

[kymcoco]

Yes Karl, you were right when you didn't believe that the 200ohm trick solved the issue

I followed today your instructions from "Reply #28 on: November 07, 2015, 04:13:19 PM", and checked the ground both from the red fuse and the start relay connector with other wires disconnected: Resistence of both is infinite. Start relay has 4ohm between terminals, and between both teminals and ground the resistence is infinite.

My note (not sure about its significance):  When I try to start it, the fuse is always blown after 1 bang, i.e. 1 time  the current could go from the battery through the brake switch and the button to the start relay, opened the flow to the start motor, spun one time the engine and the stator sent a signal to fire the spark.
Does it mean that the current is grounded AFTER the spark is fired? Or at least that it's rather a wire going from stator to spark plug (through CDI) that is grounded?

Thank you in advance

Mira

[CROSSBOLT]

That little delay could mean the fuse is heating up to the melting point. The ground is probably in your switch wires since it is the 7 amp fuse blowing. One really suspect point is at the steering head where the wire bundle rubs against the stationary tube holding the upper and lower fork pivot bearings. Once the ground is eliminated with electrical tape or sheathing or both the engine will probably start. You will have to remove a great deal of plastic body work to get at this location. You could prove this theory by testing for unwanted grounds in these switch circuits with your multimeter before you remove much of anything.

Karl

[kymcoco]

The ground is probably in your switch wires since it is the 7 amp fuse blowing.

To be sure : By "7 amp fuse" you mean the fuse on the red wire connected to the start relay terminal ? That's the one which is still blowing.

Wires that rub against the tube - do you mean the green area on the image?

Mira

[CROSSBOLT]

I am referring to the 7 amp fuse you said was blowing earlier. That was the one you replaced with a 10 amp. The latest blown fuse. Now if the fuse connected to the starter relay is blowing, it could mean something totally different. Yeah, inside the green circle. There are wires and cables that extend above the green circle to the handlebars.

Karl

[kymcoco]

I thought we understand each other when talking about the fuse on the red wire. Anyway, sequence for the red wire on the diagram is: battery, fuse, regulator, key switch, clock on dashboard, break switches, (stop light bulb), start relay, start button, (the rest I'm not sure but it should be the end ... )

I disconnected the stop bulb, thus the only candidate is ... the start button ( ? ? ? )
Tell me if I'm right please:
From left: If it was grounded between the fuse and the start button, the fuse would blow without starting:
1) whenever the battery is connected (if it's between the fuse and break switches) , or
2) whenever the battery is connected and I press the break switch (if it's between break switches and the start button, i.e. also start relay is covered by this case)

It might also explain the case, when I was testing the current going to the start relay with start motor disconnected (and when there was the 10A before I changed it to 15A..) - in such case the fuse was blown after I pressed the button several times. Because if the start button is grounded after the start relay, the start relay receives the current correctly.

Also depends on the wiring after the start button which I don't understand on the diagram - it might be grounded after the start button in fact, depends where the
wire goes. It could be checked by multimeter I hope.

Am I right or do I get crazy completely?

Mira

[CROSSBOLT]

Since the fuse blows when START and BRAKE  button/lever(s) are pushed/pulled to initiate start sequence the unintentional grounding is AFTER the switches. This will be, more than likely, insulation removed from a wire or wires, the bare metal wire touching ground. I am really confused as to which fuse was replaced with a larger one. I re-read everything and I think a 10 amp was replaced with a 15 amp. I also think you have said (lately) the fuse connected to the red wire on the start relay is the one blowing, right? That would mean the wire between the fuse and ignition switch is grounded. The ignition switch is up on the front of the bike, right? Isolate which wire is grounded by disconnecting all of them. Use the multimeter on the resistance scale between the wire and ground, moving handlebars full left to full right while watching for meter reaction. Once you find the wire with the meter you will have to visually inspect the wiring harness between the fuseholder and ignition switch. This means you will have to cut cable ties and any tape wrapped around the wire bundle.

Karl

[kymcoco]

Sorry Karl, the difference between 2 diagrams contributed to the confusion..  So yes, I still meant the fuse on the red wire which is just after start relay, it's labeled "10A" on the colourfull complete diagram and "15A" on the simplified b&w diagram. The 2nd fuse has never blown.

Since the fuse blows when START and BRAKE  button/lever(s) are pushed/pulled to initiate start sequence the unintentional grounding is AFTER the switches

But do you agree that in such case (i.e. the grounding is after the switches and before the button) the fuse would blow even if I only pull the lever? i.e. no need to push the button to reach the grounding? In my last testing I thought I have it when resistence was around 1-2 ohm between the fuse socket and ground whenever I pulled the levers - I'm not sure anymore, but I might have disproven that by hmmm .... stop bulbs? i.e. when I disconnected the bulbs the resistence got back to infinity (I'm not 100% sure anymore..) 

I also think you have said (lately) the fuse connected to the red wire on the start relay is the one blowing, right? That would mean the wire between the fuse and ignition switch is grounded

? It cancels the first idea ? If it was before the ignition switch, than the battery is still grounded and the fuse would blow whenever the thick red wire on the battery is connected, no?

[CROSSBOLT]

I have tried my best to help you solve this problem and have failed. Please find someone else to assist you. I quit.

Karl

[kymcoco]

I know it's impossible to resolve such issue remotely, so thank you very much Karl for your help, I will continue and I will keep you in touch. Merry Xmas!

[CROSSBOLT]

Thank you. Merry Christmas!

Karl