What do you think about random drug & alcohol tests at work?

[streido]

Like the topic title says, whats your opinion on random drug & alcohol testing of employees by their employer?

I work for a large multi-national company who have just decided to introduce these tests for all employees. Starting next week an outside company will come in, randomly choose a percentage of employees from their clock numbers (with no idea of names etc we are told), then test these employees for drugs and/or alcohol. Those testing positive will be suspended and "offered the required support to overcome their addiction".

Personally i find the whole thing a gross invasion of my privacy and my right to have a private personal life outside of work. We already have a drug and alcohol policy which allows managers to ask someone they suspect of being under the influence of drugs or alcohol to take a test, ie if they look drugged/drunk or if they can smell drugs or drink off them, which i fully support. I find the idea of mass random testing to be totally unacceptable though. I used to smoke a joint or 5 but stopped over a month ago for my own reasons (probably fortunately), i rarely drink alcohol much these days and dont smoke cigs apart from the odd cigar. Why should i be punished if i choose to smoke a joint in the future, maybe while on holiday or at a party one weekend? Given cannabis can be detected weeks or even months after smoking isnt it unreasonable to punish someone having an odd joint while at the same time allowing others to get totally hammered on alcohol all weekend, every weekend, as long as they sober up by Monday morning?

I know this kind of thing is big in the US so just wondered how you all deal with it or feel about it? Like i say, i have no problem if the guy is stoned, drunk or high at work, but to me my personal time is my personal business. If it affects my work then deal with it, if not then leave me be.  Feels like Minority Report, only for real  

[juice]

I feel you but I would not be at all surprised to find out your companys insurance provider is behind the new policy . Probably much lower rates for employers that test . Good luck .

[ts1]

We someimes get alcoholic drinks as a gift from our company and are asked to drink during work. In this case it wouldn't be applicable.
In most other jobs an employee just needs to do his job, medical issues are only between the employee and his trusted physician. Breaking the professional secrecy is an offence.
Only in very special jobs (with very high security demands) and only as contracted, the company may enforce a no alcohol/drug policy.

[skippy]

i had the same thing with 2 past jobs. it was inforced that on the spot checkes would be done. noone ever got tested... each monthley meeting we were told the same thing.there is going to be checks this month. and it never happened...

[streido]

Yeah Juice i heard about that insurance thing, i imagine that may well be a factor. I also suspect it may well be a ruse to get rid of employees without paying out redundancy payments. Work has suspiciously gone a bit thin on the ground recently and i would not put it past them to use this to cut numbers while saving money?

My main problem is they are only paying me to work 37hrs per week yet they want to control my private life outwith work. Who the fu©k do they think they are? I am of the opinion that smoking an occasional joint in no way means you have a "problem", in exactly the same way that having an occasional few beers does not mean you have a drink problem. Thing is these assholes will not see it like that, drink is good, drugs are bad for them because they are ill informed on the facts.

Even tho i will be negative 10 months out of 12 if tested it pisses me off i cant now choose to smoke a spliff, in MY time, in MY home without fear of being labelled as someone with a drug problem? I have no problem with drink or drugs, i just would like to be able have a joint occasionally if i choose to, which in no way affects my performance at work or attendence. I asked the question "what if i go to Amsterdam for a weekend with my mates and smoke hash?", answer was "You will fail the test if you are tested and be suspended". That is B.S, i have done nothing illegal yet will still be punished!!! Again controlling my private, personal life........

I am seriously thinking of looking for another job.

[08087]

I'm not in favor of it at all myself, that being said I work on a passenger railroad and depending on the relationship you have with the operations and movements of trains will have bearing on how often you get tested.

In my group "communications" we get tested once a year or if we are suspected of being under some influence. If you have direct or indirect contact with the operations of the Rail Road you are spot checked (called random) then once a year called (annuals)  and if they suspect your under the influence.

[blue]

I like the idea I like working in a safe place not next to someone that might not be all there because of drugs or what ever. my work does drug testing but only if you get hurt at work. you have to have a drug test done to come back.

[Vivo]

In our case, drug tests are requisites for employment... so it's voluntary... if you want the job, then you must comply.

Random drug tests, however, is a different story... you can invoke your right against self-incrimination or you can volunteer. The Company can only require you a drug test, if they suspect you are high, look drunk, or look stoned, other than this, they cannot force an employee to take a drug test. It's in the Bill of Rights under our Constitution and it's illegal.... your right against self incrimination...

[neotrotsky]

My job deals with high voltage, time-critical show cues, heavy equipment, ladders and did I mention high voltage?

I don't care what your opinion on pot is: It slows you down, and where I work it's against University policy.  I terminate anyone on my crew caught drinking before or on the job, and the same goes to smoking out.  It's in black and white on the contract when you sign for it.  If you can't put the substance down when your job entails a certain level of safety, I don't want you on the job. 

Usually, the only ones who bitch at length about it are the ones who are addicted to the stuff.  Yes, pot is addictive.  Tell a chronic pothead to stop smoking for 3 months.  They won't.  Like any addiction, it needs to be treated and broken.  And, it alters the mind, which on the job is a liability.

[adri]

If my contract didn't explicitly allow for this I would be sure to point that out...

[streido]

Some good points. Like i said my personal concern is a matter of privacy and the right to have a personal and private life away from work. I would NEVER dream of smoking anything while at work, not even a cig, in the same way i would never drink alcohol at work EVER.

Pot/Grass/hash is NOT addictive, this has been medically proven many times. The act, ritual and "scene" around it can be addictive tho as well as the nicotine in the tobacco if you mix it like that. Recent reports state it in no way permanently alters the brain or intelligence of regular smokers as long as they do not start before the age of 18. Under 18's who smoke do lose some brain function which IS permanent. Given the effects or "high" from a joint last maybe 2-4 hours at most i would say it is comparable to alcohol. The differemce is alcohol cannot be detected after 12-14 hours where THC from cannabis stays in the fat cells of the body fkr anywhere from 2 days to 30 days plus. This does not mean you are high for 30 days or in ANY way affected once the high wears off, its just in your fat cells so will be detected in your urine as it leaves the body after being broken down, the brain is NOT under the influence during this time.

I am 100% behind testing ANYONE who appears stoned, drugged or drunk at work, a blanket testing of ALL employees is just wrong tho as far as i am concerned. It is also a violation of our privacy and rights to a private life outwith work. Imo.

If any employee has a problem with drink or drugs it is apparent thro them taking time off, being late more often, making mistakes at work or acting oddly, these folk can be tested if suspected of having a problem, why test us all?

I know guys in their 50's & 60's who smoke a spliff most nights after dinner and just chill at home, they NEVER miss a day at work, ALWAYS produce great work and have no problem with concentration or any other issues. These guys will fail a test tho they are NOT under the influence while at work EVER.

At the same time i know many people who go straight to the pub after work, drink for 2-4 hours then go home pretty smashed 3-5 nights per week, they often miss days due to hangovers or sleep in due to alcohol the night before. These guys will pass any test as they are NOT under the influence at work either but have a far bigger problem imo.

A single spliff every few months harms no-one but it could lose a good worker his/her job. Different if they are permanently stoned and a complete "space cadet" type i agree. Where i live alcohol is a far, far bigger problem and this is often stated by the police as well as doctors and surgeons.

[Vivo]

It's simple, really,... check your laws... and if it's illegal and violates one's right..., then that's it! No more this and that... I've been in Human Resources for 20 years and perfectly aware of our Labor Laws and other related laws... I formulated a Drug Policy years back but guided with the law.  I made sure my company policy is perfectly fair and legal...

[streido]

It's simple, really,... check your laws... and if it's illegal and violates one's right..., then that's it! No more this and that... I've been in Human Resources for 20 years and perfectly aware of our Labor Laws and other related laws... I formulated a Drug Policy years back but guided with the law.  I made sure my company policy is perfectly fair and legal...

Our Trade Union reps have already looked into it Vivo and because it is a fairly new thing in the UK for these tests with general employers it is a "grey area". The Army etc have had these testing procedures for decades but "normal" workers have not. It is listed as a violation of the rights of workers to a private life under the European Human Rights act but the grey area is because companies are now trying to use Health and Safety laws to impose the tests and they have yet to be challenged fully. A few cases have gone to court for folk who refused the test and these were rejected but as yet no-one here has challenged whether simply having the residue of a drug in your system days or weeks after taking the drug constitutes you being "under the influence" while at work which could lead to dismissal for Gross Misconduct. I am a Trade Union Health & Safety rep where i work and i can tell you our incidents and accidents have been dropping for the last decade or more thro improvements in awareness, better training and education, and safer working practices. I cannot remember ANY accident or injury occurring in the last 15 years due to alcohol or drug use or abuse at work.

At the minute our T.U are trying to clarify the exact specifics of the law and legallities of these tests so they are better able to defend or represent any member failing a test. Like i said i, and our Trade Union, are 100% behind tackling anyone who appears drunk or drugged while at work, at the same time tho we disagree with blanket random testing for all.

[streido]

Just to add, it is not illegal here to have residue of drugs in your system if stopped by the police and tested. It IS illegal to be under the infulence of and possess illegal drugs but simply having residue in your system is NOT illegal if you are not "high" at the time, ie if stopped for a driving offence etc.

So the police and courts will not punish you yet your employer will 

[ScooterWolf]

I've never been subjected to a random drug test and I wonder if they take into account any prescription drugs that may be in your system. Also, don't know if it's an urban legend, but poppy seeds, say from a poppy seed bagel, could affect your test as it may appear as a component of opium.

I think if your job is one that requires you to work with heavy equipment, or to carry a license such as a bus or taxi driver, construction worker, etc .... then I think the random test is apt. Outside of that I don't think it's necessary.

However, I wonder if there is another facet to this law. All illegal drugs are connected to organized crime which too often have blood on their hands. Numerous people for decades have been beaten, intimidated, forced into labor and killed because of illegal drugs. If you purchase any illegal drug, even if it's for recreational use you are supporting these organizations, and unfortunately any crimes associated with them. If you grow the drugs yourself, such as pot, or purchase/use them in a legal environment such as in Amsterdam than you are at least morally free of these actions, but any illegal purchase does have consequences.

I'm not a big fan of drugs -- pot or otherwise only because several members of my own family have had serious problems with them. I've seen first hand what they can do to a person, their loved ones, and their own careers.

-Wolf