Trike Conversion or CanAm Spyder

[old geezer]

I ride much more conservative than I did in my younger days. And I am way past the age to die young so I'm not worried. Thanks anyway.

[08087]

AXY,

I take  much of the info you offered as good solid advice that won't hurt me to follow, however I think you have to come up with number of wrecks per 100,000 motorcycles owned vs. 100,000 scooters owned to see which realy is the worse one to operate and also do so in a first world country as we know many parts of Asia is just teaming with scoots in disrepair.

Also other members have as much exp. on a bike as yourself and may have other findings. (I'm not one of them) You have to step back and look in that mirror once in awhile.

Just sayin' (08)

[axy]

AXY,

I take  much of the info you offered as good solid advice that won't hurt me to follow, however I think you have to come up with number of wrecks per 100,000 motorcycles owned vs. 100,000 scooters owned to see which realy is the worse one to operate

First, I am not a bureau of statistics. Second, this kind of statistics might not be publicly available. Third, they do not follow "wrecks", but usually they are divided as accidents with more or less serious consequences, or with fatalities. Fourth, number of "wrecks" per 100.000 motorcycles owned does not say anything. 100.000 motorcycles are comprised of sports bikes used on tracks or weekend-fun at high speed, nakeds or tourers used for driving or Asia/Africa daily commuters. 100.000 scooters might be comprised of people who drive them instead of cafe racers or as a first/last two wheeler in their lives. Everybody who knows anything about statistical analysis knows how meaningless would such a comparison be.

Finally, fatalities per miles covered would be slightly better indicator, but not much better.

Average speed for motorcycles is much higher than for scooters, even in the same displacement class.

Do you understand how pointless and scientifically unfounded your idea is?

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) riders of high-performance racing motorcycles, called “supersports” have driver death rates per 10,000 registered vehicles nearly four times higher than for drivers of other types of motorcycles.  Supersports have more horsepower than conventional motorcycles and can reach speeds of up to 190 mph. They are built on racing platforms and are modified for street use. The bikes are popular with riders under the age of 30.

In 2005, these bikes registered 22.5 driver deaths per 10,000 registered vehicles, compared with 10.7 deaths for other sport models.  Standards, cruisers and touring bikes, with upright handlebars, had rates of 5.7 and 6.5 per 10,000 vehicles. In 2005, supersports accounted for 9 percent of registrations, and standards and cruisers made up 51 percent of registrations.

Speeding and driver error were bigger factors in supersport and sport fatal crashes. Speed was cited in 57 percent of supersport riders’ fatal crashes in 2005 and in 46 percent for sport model riders. Speed was a factor in 27 of fatal crashes of riders of cruisers and standards, and for 22 percent of riders of touring models.

Number of Deaths for Every 10,000 Registered Motorcycles in 2005, by Type of MotorcycleType of Motorcycle   Deaths per 10,000 Registered Motorcycles
Cruise   5.7
Touring   6.5
Sport   10.7
Supersport   22.5

This information means NOTHING, as 10.000 registered motorcycles can cover 10.000 miles per year of 10 billion miles per year.

Also, statistics usually do not distinguish between motorcycles and scooter, and especially not for vehicles with displacement > 50 cc.

I will stop here.

[08087]

First, I am not a bureau of statistics. Second, this kind of statistics might not be publicly available. Third, they do not follow "wrecks", but usually they are divided as accidents with more or less serious consequences, or with fatalities. Fourth, number of "wrecks" per 100.000 motorcycles owned does not say anything. 100.000 motorcycles are comprised of sports bikes used on tracks or weekend-fun at high speed, nakeds or tourers used for driving or Asia/Africa daily commuters. 100.000 scooters might be comprised of people who drive them instead of cafe racers or as a first/last two wheeler in their lives. Everybody who knows anything about statistical analysis knows how meaningless would such a comparison be.

Finally, fatalities per miles covered would be slightly better indicator, but not much better.

Average speed for motorcycles is much higher than for scooters, even in the same displacement class.

Do you understand how pointless and scientifically unfounded your idea is?

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) riders of high-performance racing motorcycles, called “supersports” have driver death rates per 10,000 registered vehicles nearly four times higher than for drivers of other types of motorcycles.  Supersports have more horsepower than conventional motorcycles and can reach speeds of up to 190 mph. They are built on racing platforms and are modified for street use. The bikes are popular with riders under the age of 30.

In 2005, these bikes registered 22.5 driver deaths per 10,000 registered vehicles, compared with 10.7 deaths for other sport models.  Standards, cruisers and touring bikes, with upright handlebars, had rates of 5.7 and 6.5 per 10,000 vehicles. In 2005, supersports accounted for 9 percent of registrations, and standards and cruisers made up 51 percent of registrations.

Speeding and driver error were bigger factors in supersport and sport fatal crashes. Speed was cited in 57 percent of supersport riders’ fatal crashes in 2005 and in 46 percent for sport model riders. Speed was a factor in 27 of fatal crashes of riders of cruisers and standards, and for 22 percent of riders of touring models.

Number of Deaths for Every 10,000 Registered Motorcycles in 2005, by Type of MotorcycleType of Motorcycle   Deaths per 10,000 Registered Motorcycles
Cruise   5.7
Touring   6.5
Sport   10.7
Supersport   22.5

This information means NOTHING, as 10.000 registered motorcycles can cover 10.000 miles per year of 10 billion miles per year.

Also, statistics usually do not distinguish between motorcycles and scooter, and especially not for vehicles with displacement > 50 cc.

I will stop here.

You say it all means nothing yet you post tons of it? In posts past you have handed out numbers to support your stance, why if they mean nothing?

I/we have you on one hand saying how bad scoots are as compared with regular/real motor cycles and we have "OLD" with ;oads of time at the handle bars saying pretty much the opposite yet you want everyone to take your side and not that of "OLD".

As mentioned I'll use your advise personally because I am not very exp at riding and it cost me nothing to be more cautious but you need to understand others may feel they have as much expertise as you and still disagree.

It is possible that you are wrong is it not? It is just as possible that they are wrong, why are we being so hard headed? Ease up fellers!

[old geezer]

I shouldn't reply here but i will anyway. I told you before that he believes that he is intellectually superior to the other posters on this form. And if he can't dazzle you with brilliance, he will baffle you with bull sh**.

(Note to self...stop replying in these posts as i have a confrontational personality and don't deal with bullsh** well.)

[axy]

It is possible that you are wrong is it not?

Only a complete fool is never wrong.
However, forum discussions are notorious for going astray, so this might be a good time to check what exactly I might be wrong about?!?

For sure I am not wrong about the fact that, generally speaking, scooters have the cheapest possible components when it comes to suspension and brakes while motorcycles comparatively excel in that area.

This excellent text on wikipedia might be too much to digest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_dynamics

However, please, would all proponents of "excellent" scooter brakes and suspensions read the section under "braking" that says:

Braking
 
 A motorcyclist performing a stoppie.

"Most of the braking force of standard upright bikes comes from the front wheel. As the analysis above shows, if the brakes themselves are strong enough, the rear wheel is easy to skid, while the front wheel often can generate enough stopping force to flip the rider and bike over the front wheel. This is called a stoppie if the rear wheel is lifted but the bike does not flip, or an endo (abbreviated form of end-over-end) if the bike flips. On long or low bikes, however, such as cruiser motorcycles and recumbent bicycles, the front tire will skid instead, possibly causing a loss of balance."

Scooters are worst of all. They are low, recumbent, and long, resembling seating position of a cruiser. They have cheapest possible components made for city driving, lines, pads, discs, and usually non-adjustable suspension, front one for sure, with only preload, if at all, on the rear side.

Only a complete fool can or somebody who did not do the homework can put side by side a scooter and a naked and compare handling and brakes.

Whoever sat on 600 cc naked like Fazer 600 or Bandit 600 and then on 500-600 scooter knows all this.

After everything said, is there something else that is not crystal clear?

[axy]

I shouldn't reply here but i will anyway. I told you before that he believes that he is intellectually superior to the other posters on this form. And if he can't dazzle you with brilliance, he will baffle you with bull sh**.

(Note to self...stop replying in these posts as i have a confrontational personality and don't deal with bullsh** well.)

Too bad you have zero arguments except one-liners.
If you feel intellectually inferior to me, work on that issue.

[old geezer]

Too bad you have zero arguments except one-liners.
If you feel intellectually inferior to me, work on that issue.

I don't feel inferior to any one especially a condescending arrogant person on an Internet board who thinks that if he blows some ones candle out it will make his brighter.

I have probably forgotten more than you think you know.

Now back to scooters and motorcycles.

Its all in the rider..

[axy]

I don't feel inferior to any one especially a condescending arrogant person on an Internet board who thinks that if he blows some ones candle out it will make his brighter.

I have probably forgotten more than you think you know.

Now back to scooters and motorcycles.

Its all in the rider..

On YouTube you can find video of Yamaha R1 (1000 cc, 150 hp) being beaten in a drag race by Piaggio ZIP (nominally 50 cc, 3 hp).

You would probably be one of the armchair experts claiming hurr-durr, Piaggio Zip can beat R1!

And, of course, that it's all in the rider.

Must have been great being you and forgetting all those things you once knew. Interestingly, I do not forget things I learn. How come you forgot so many?

Maybe you are st... not that intelligent? Stop. Think about it for a second. Facts, analysis, conclusion. Time - now!

[Pimpy1]

[old geezer]

Just maybe if you make it to my age you will find out you were not as smart as you once thought you were.

Now go hump some one else's leg.

[axy]

Just maybe if you make it to my age you will find out you were not as smart as you once thought you were.

Now go hump some one else's leg.

Can't pull seniority on me. I have never been impressed by old people just because they are old. I believe firmly in meritocracy, not gerontocracy.
Old fools are even more sad than young fools because life has passed and they have learned nothing.

Your contribution to this discussion has been zero. Zilch. Nada.

As probably your contribution to pretty much everything else, one can tell...

p.s. Are you done with being humped?

[old geezer]

No you can suck my balls you arrogant bastard. Now I'm done with your dumb ass.

[axy]

No you can suck my balls you arrogant bastard. Now I'm done with your dumb ass.

Are you sure? You seem to be of a nervous or excitable disposition.
This is very stressful and unhealthy, especially at your age.  
I recommend a nice calming cup of tea, maybe some valerian root.

A knitting club, perhaps? 

[streido]