What's hapenning?

[08087]

This debate always causes arguements in the USA for some weird reason. Some folk seem think they have more rights to own a high powered military spec weapon than everyone else has to feel safe. They also quote the right to bear arms, well yeah, but that was not the right to bear a machine gun or high powered auto pistol, it was a musket or similair weapon. I believe the reason was to be able to form a militia of the people to bring down any future corrupt government, love to see ya'll take on the US armed forces and win with your personal weapons, wouldnt happen nowadays.

To us outside the US it seems a bit sad that this killing of innocents just carries on and on, year after year, and nohing ever is done to stop it. You have the highest number of guns in private ownership in the world, you also have the highest number of deaths from guns in the world. Since the mid-80's youve averaged around 2 massacres per year. Doesnt take a genius to work out how to cut gun deaths does it? EVERY time this happens folk get upset and say this cant ever happen again, well if nothing is done it WILL happen again. And again. And again............

First you'd need to be an American to uderstand this whole "my rights thing", people that have no clue should keep their uneducated comments to themselves. No disrespect but your not American so you don't get it.

My "RIGHTS" shall not be infringed, what about that don't you get, your argument is an emotional one not a constructive one. Fact it is our right to own a weapon, that cannot be taken away. The reason for this right is to ward off any tyrant that wants to rule the people with an iron fist, not for hunting.

As for the class of guns every gun could be an assult weapon that's just a wonderful word they made up to scare nice people. The guns (Muskets) that were used back in the 1700's were the state of the art military weapons of the day, why can't we advance with the times? Do you really expect us to use black powder and ball to defend ourselves from a military establishment? Please, you are so uninformed.

We are a nation of guns, take away my gun and only bad guys will have them, they won't be turning theirs in you can count on it.

FYI the district of Washington (Washington DC) and the city of Chicago have the toughest gun laws in the nation, no guns allowed, yet they have the highest crime rates. You know why don't you, because they (the bad guys) know you can't fight back.

In case you are unaware we the American people own some 300 million legal guns I can't even think of the number of illegal guns out there. Do you think we could not over run our invading troops? You need to remember that our troops have an obligation to uphold the constitution first and foremost, they have no obligation to follow a tyrant of a leader.

Stick to political banter in your part of the world where perhaps you know something about it, you wan't see me commenting on your country not having guns, it's your country, who the hell am I to say what you should be doing.

[ce]

Americans are armed for protection against savages, as this has always been a wild place, and 21st Century savages still roam the land.

One would think that civilized Europe would be more safe, but that is where millions upon millions died, first the Lost Generation in World War One, then again in World War Two with even more horrific violence.

There has never been anything like it in America, and our losses in foreign wars were our contribution to civilty. If someone invades your country, and tries to make you a slave, we'll come kick their ass.

You're welcome.

[08087]

Americans are armed for protection against savages, as this has always been a wild place, and 21st Century savages still roam the land.

One would think that civilized Europe would be more safe, but that is where millions upon millions died, first the Lost Generation in World War One, then again in World War Two with even more horrific violence.

There has never been anything like it in America, and our losses in foreign wars were our contribution to civilty. If someone invades your country, and tries to make you a slave, we'll come kick their ass.

You're welcome.

Thank you, well said. I wonder how many people in the United States have been killed by guns in the last 100 years, maybe a couple of million and all innocent (maybe, maybe not). But here is how many innocents were killed by gov. around the world in that time, 170,000,000. The clip is long but you'll get the messege in the first 5 minutes. A gov is far more likely to kill you then a nut in America with a gun.

As the saying goes, read it and weep, weep for one of those 170 million innocents that were killed at the hands of their modern day gov.

[kingkymco125]

All one has to look at are those countries with full dictatorships such as North Korea and Cuba. Look at Paul Pot in Cambodia. Here was a guy who was educated in the west and then came back to kill his own people. God forbid we should bring this fact up. When the people are allow to protect and defend themselves crime goes down. Then again guns don't kill people it is people who kill people with whatever weapons they chose to do this.

[08087]

Thought I'd add that more people are killed with kitchen knives and hammers then guns in the US, maybe time to eat with chop sticks and only use nail guns to build houses.

[partyhut]

guns, of any sort are but tools. depending on the hands they are in tools can build and tools can destroy.
Take away our guns and you leave us without the tools to rebuild what tools in the hands of fools have destroyed.
to be unarmed is to be at the mercy of any and every governmental renegade group that wants controlling power.
I'll hang on to mine thanks   legally or otherwise.

[Vivo]

All toy guns here must have a red plastic tip to show they are toys. Maybe sokething to do with this Vivo? Saves innocent kids being surrounded or shot with by armed swat teams after someone mistakingly reports some kids running about with a gun? Lots of these toys look VERY realistic, especially from a distance.


Yes, toy guns must have the orange or red tip.  As per report, there was a previous shipment of toy guns without the red tips... the customs held it, informed the importer, then the importer had the toys tipped with red... then the customs approved them... NO CONFISCATION WAS DONE.   This time, the customs saw the guns and didnt recognize them as toys...informed the ATF... the ATF saw them and confiscated them... the ATF later realized they were toys but instead of admitting they made a mistake and look like fools, the ATF stood to their decision and tried to justify their actions.


080, yes man knives! they are silent...no need for bullets... and they don't jam...


Guns are part of American culture...although I am not an American I can perfectly understand this.  Guns won the West... the Colt Frontier single action revolver and the Winchester rifle!  These are were the two that are and will remain part of American history and culture. The 1911 / 1911A1.. the most copied .45 pistol is pure American culture and part of our history as well. This is the only handgun that can stop a Muslim Juramentado during the peak of muslim campaigns in our country before.  If it wasnt for this handgun... many innocent would have died...

[streido]

. The reason for this right is to ward off any tyrant that wants to rule the people with an iron fist, not for hunting.

Good luck with that, i did touch on that 08, but times have changed since that particular right was written. Like i said, good luck shooting down drones, the Taliban have tried for years without much success. Still, even if you think you wpuld ever be "ruled by a tyrant" you dont need guns to defeat them, as has be proven recently around the globe with the so called "Arab Springs". People overthrew their tyrants thro civil disobedience, protest and other non-violent means, and won.

Do you really expect us to use black powder and ball to defend ourselves from a military establishment? Please, you are so uninformed

See above.

Stick to political banter in your part of the world where perhaps you know something about it, you wan't see me commenting on your country not having guns, it's your country, who the hell am I to say what you should be doing.

So now no-one can comment on things unless they directly affect them or they have a direct interest in the topic/thread? I own an Agililty, so can i not now comment on any other scooter? Can i now not comment or have a view on say American bike laws? American spec scooters? American anything? Get a grip. Its an open forum, anyone can say whatever they like as ling as its not racist, sexist, homophobic or attacking, you say plenty of stuff i dont agree with but i dont tell you to butt out and not have an opinion? (tho a few others have?). You really are quite hard headed and stubborn, or at least thats how you come across? Whenever YOU have any opinion on anything you seem to always think youre correct and everyone else is just wrong, or stupid. Prob why youre the only member i know on here who has upset, annoyed and argued with so many other members because they happened to have a different view to yours?

Personally i dont care what you do about your gun problem, like you said, i dont live there, but i do care and do feel sorry when i see innocent folks, especially children, shot and killed by a maniac or unstable person with a gun. If you all are happy to live the way you do then by all means carry on as you are.

As always 08, been an absolute pleasure 

[streido]

Just to add 08........

No. I do not have experience of living in a country with a gun problem, neither do i have experience of gun crime. My comments are based on my experience growing up in Glasgow in the 70's & 80's when we had a big knife and knife crime problem. It got to the stage where even normal, innocent folks began carrying knives just to protect themselves in case they were robbed or atracked by thugs/crims.  See the similarities? How did they stop it? By hammering down on it. Anyone caught with a knife gets an automatic semtence, unless its a chef or worker with his trade tools going or coming from work. Any one involved in knife crime alao got higher semtences. Sure, things didnt change overnight, it took years, but now we have no knife problem. Yeah, some idiots do still carry a knife but it is rare for them to use it on anyone other than another gang member or crim. From speaking to other American friends, mamy say that police forces in many states are pretty bad, and so is their response times and follow up, mayhe you need to look at that and its funding if they dont have the resources to work as they should? I know if i called the cops now for an intruder in my home then a cop would be at my door in 2-3 mins max, from what i hear that is not the case in many parts of the US?

[08087]

You miss the point as usual. We have it built into our constitution, they cannot take it away. I'd much rather live here then where I'm not on equal terms with the bad guys and police.

You missed that our military has an obligation to defend the constitution and I have faith they will not attack the citizens. The Police (state) on the other hand I have little faith in and I know we the people will run all over them with our pea shooters.

The reason Japan didn't invade mainland US back in WWII was because there was a gun behind every blade of grass. The reason we are fee today is because we have a gun in evey house. Nice how you don't care to address the meat of any pro gun argument on this forum. how about the 170,000,000 killed by tyrants. try and discuss 1 topic.

And what I'm saying about sticking to politics in yourpart of the world is that you obviously know nothing about them in my part of the world. Like I said nothing from me on your countries policies as I'm ignorant of them just as it's so obvious your ignorant of ours.

On a side note: Where the hell is Mad Dog?

[08087]

If you agree with the this statement, we in America know exactly where your coming from and which side of your face your speaking though.

We're not to judge all Muslims by the acts of a few "crazies," but the acts of a few American crazies is enough to judge all Americans who own guns.
 
Left logic and 2 faced!

[08087]

Argue with this:



If the American Indians had guns and ammo maybe I'd be speaking the native language of my mothers blood line instead of the English we all do today.

[Vivo]

Now back to our program......



ATF still cannot answer questions why they confiscated the toys.... they are trying hard to justify their actions and stick to it....  tsk, tsk...   This really is not a gun issue anymore and is hitting below the belt.... what about the thousands of toys already in the hands of citizens and the thousands already in stores?  Hey ATF Agents!!!! confiscate them all!!! Stupid !!!  What's next? Arrest  inflatable dolls for prostitution??? 



                   

[08087]

Now back to our program......



ATF still cannot answer questions why they confiscated the toys.... they are trying hard to justify their actions and stick to it....  tsk, tsk...   This really is not a gun issue anymore and is hitting below the belt.... what about the thousands of toys already in the hands of citizens and the thousands already in stores?  Hey ATF Agents!!!! confiscate them all!!! Stupid !!!  What's next? Arrest  inflatable dolls for prostitution??? 



                   

Going by the letter of the law the ATF or whoever confiscated them were correct in doing so. Going back in time a cop on more then one occasion shot and killed someone with a "toy" gun that looked real and that is the reason for the pink or red tip. There is no personal responsibility in the US these days. The whole outlook is punish everyone for the mistakes or actions of the few.

[kingkymco125]

It is for this reason, I will not engage in politics, or religion of some sort. It can get real nasty with these topics.  The United States has become a sue happy nation with everyone suing anyone for anything. We have become a nation where the citizens refuse to take responsibility for their actions. It is never anyone's fault. No, it is someone's else fault. We have become a nation of victims which is sad. All one has to do is look at the President of the United States. It is his behavior which encourages everyone to be the victim instead of owning up to their own actions for what they have done in their own lives. I refuse to give into this behavior.