What's hapenning?

[streido]

We had one school massacre where some wanker went and killed a load of junior school kids and a teacher with legally held handguns in Dunblane, Scotland. After it WE demanded action, the gov proposed all sorts of crap but WE said it was b.s and wanted ALL handguns banned here. Eventually in 1997 we got it. Now NO handguns are allowed, NO assault rifles or semi/full auto guns, and no wepons whos only purpose is for warfare are allowed. Only some hunting rifles and some shotguns are legal here, and even then to hold one you need to pass a rigourous background check and profile check, inc home visits by the police before and during the time you own a gun. We have never had another school massacre since.

This debate always causes arguements in the USA for some weird reason. Some folk seem think they have more rights to own a high powered military spec weapon than everyone else has to feel safe. They also quote the right to bear arms, well yeah, but that was not the right to bear a machine gun or high powered auto pistol, it was a musket or similair weapon. I believe the reason was to be able to form a militia of the people to bring down any future corrupt government, love to see ya'll take on the US armed forces and win with your personal weapons, wouldnt happen nowadays.

To us outside the US it seems a bit sad that this killing of innocents just carries on and on, year after year, and nohing ever is done to stop it. You have the highest number of guns in private ownership in the world, you also have the highest number of deaths from guns in the world. Since the mid-80's youve averaged around 2 massacres per year. Doesnt take a genius to work out how to cut gun deaths does it? EVERY time this happens folk get upset and say this cant ever happen again, well if nothing is done it WILL happen again. And again. And again............

I know about half the Americans on here will disagree with what i said and still insist they have a right to own a gun and no-one is going to change that, thats fine, thats your view, no probs, but how will they stop this happening again? More guns? Better guns? Diesnt work, all you get is an arms race with ghe bad guys, which is exactly why our cops are unarmed here.

[Peters]

I believe the reason was to be able to form a militia of the people to bring down any future corrupt government, love to see ya'll take on the US armed forces and win with your personal weapons, wouldnt happen nowadays.

The US armed forces are people just like you and me. Extremely patriotic people at that. Good luck convincing them to turn their weapons on American citizens. Some might follow the chain of command. I'm betting most would form a militia of their own.

You have the highest number of guns in private ownership in the world, you also have the highest number of deaths from guns in the world.

Of course!... Oh yeah, I forgot people are never killed with other methods. If you make guns illegal in a country, of course deaths from guns is going to go down. Violence is going to happen guns or not. I'm looking at the whole picture. This is why I hate most statistics. They're just numbers. They don't tell you anything.

[Peters]

Thought I should add something

Lets consider this a friendly debate. I'm not attacking you streido. I like you. We all have the right to voice our opinion. I don't want other members to start attacking you. Debates like this can get very passionate. Lets keep things civilized. 

[wordslinger]

..yeah, everybody leave streido alone, no matter how much what he said might have hurt your feelings...

                        

..truth is, no matter what legislation is passed, americans will not give up their firearms...

..hell, the right to own them is instilled in us all....

..personally, i dont own a gun......


..got a cpl of sling-shots, a bb rifle and a crossbow...


                            




...i could kill you with either one, if I wanted to...

[Vivo]

BACK TO THE TOPIC...


Why are they confiscating TOY guns?


Matches can cause fires and kill more.... confiscate those....


How about a water gun loaded with toxic chemicals.??


I think it's all about timing, political issues I mean, popular issues are being talked about before elections... un-popular or sensitive issues, after elections... ponder on that....

[wordslinger]

...they will pry my slingshot from cold dead hand...






..no, really...

[Vivo]

What about tanks? will they ban them too?




What if I have tanks like collector Jacques Littlefield had?

[wordslinger]

...no, those are weapons of mass destruction...


..homeland will take care of those for you...

[ce]

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only guns are in the hands of the police and military.

William S Burroughs

[Peters]

BACK TO THE TOPIC...


Why are they confiscating TOY guns?


Matches can cause fires and kill more.... confiscate those....


How about a water gun loaded with toxic chemicals.??


I think it's all about timing, political issues I mean, popular issues are being talked about before elections... un-popular or sensitive issues, after elections... ponder on that....

Toy companies are easy targets

[Vivo]

Which would you rather have, a toy converted into a questionable firearm or a fully functional "home-made" gun....  We have some backyard industries here manufacturing illegal firearms. Some of these guns are good...  














Our .25 caliber mini-ingram.... cute little feller....

[kingkymco125]

I would prefer a real weapon to protect and defend just in case I had to use it. It is like martial arts. Why do we learn martial arts if we feel we will never use this? The point here is that it is about learning how to protect and defend ourselves against those who would do harm to us. Now in the states, we all know the government wants to control people. Those who say the 2nd Amendment is about hunting only miss the point. In the early days of the USA, everyone owned a firearm. In fact it was common for everyone to go out and hunt for food. If they did not, they would go hungry. Our founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing. The 2nd Amendment really is about the right of the people to defend themselves from those who would do harm to them.

[Vivo]

[de dee]

the answer of toy guns is because they look so real, if a cop says put your weapon down, kids think this is just a toy there not talking to me , and they have been shot ,. how would you like to be the cop that shot a kid,

[streido]

The US armed forces are people just like you and me. Extremely patriotic people at that. Good luck convincing them to turn their weapons on American citizens. Some might follow the chain of command. I'm betting most would form a militia of their own.

So why do the private citizens even need the guns then to form a militia They dont.

Of course!... Oh yeah, I forgot people are never killed with other methods. If you make guns illegal in a country, of course deaths from guns is going to go down. Violence is going to happen guns or not. I'm looking at the whole picture.

Well there must be something way wrong in your society then if you all are intent on killing each other with whatever weapon you can get your hands on? Even so, its harder to massacre with a sword or knife than it is with a gun.

  Lets consider this a friendly debate. I'm not attacking you streido. I like you. We all have the right to voice our opinion. I don't want other members to start attacking you. Debates like this can get very passionate. Lets keep things civilized.  

100% agree Pete. I wasnt even going to get involved in this debate purely because i know its such a touchy subject over there. I fully expect many people wont agree with me. No probs. Like you say, we all have our opinions. Surely everyone must see tho that SOM :)ETHING has to be done SOMEWHERE to try prevent these assholes before they act. I just shake my head now when i read or hear of another tragedy on the news over there, NOTHING ever get done to stop or minimise it happening again which makes little sense? If you keep doing the same thing then you can expect to keep getting the same outcomes?

I like you

  I like you too Pete 

..yeah, everybody leave streido alone, no matter how much what he said might have hurt your feelings

Wasnt my intention to hurt anyones feelings, if i did then i apologise. All i meant to do was give it perspective from an unarmed country. Im a big boy, i can take a beating down if it comes

Why are they confiscating TOY guns?

All toy guns here must have a red plastic tip to show they are toys. Maybe sokething to do with this Vivo? Saves innocent kids being surrounded or shot with by armed swat teams after someone mistakingly reports some kids running about with a gun? Lots of these toys look VERY realistic, especially from a distance.

In the early days of the USA, everyone owned a firearm

Yup, but as i read only last week, gun control was actually better back then in many places than it is now. Even in the days of Tombstone all guns had to be handed into the sheriff upon entering town to stop shootings.

Like i said, most of us Europeans just dont get it, must be a culture thing. I cant see any reasonable excuse for anyone not serving in a warzone to ever own an auto or semi-auto firearm, or a high capacity magazine, or some gun which would bring down an elephant, i dont understand it? Im sure theyre fun to shoot legally at targets etc but the risk isnt worth it, as has been shown time and time again. A small calibre handgun is more than enough for personal protection if you insist on it.