..Are you a ride warrior?...

[jprestonian]

I haven't heard of any of the mainland Chinese bikes being considered "as good," quality-wise as any of the Taiwanese bikes. Supposedly some are getting there, but one that I hear mentioned a lot has a good local dealer (open about 14 mos., so far), and he admits he's replaced entire engines under warranty... something the SYM/Kymco/Genuine dealer has not had to do on any of his bikes, in three years.

In fact, MY bike has had the most extensive warranty repair for them, thusfar (and yeah, it was a doozy!)... but to be fair, my dealer didn't sell it to me. I bought it used from a guy in Florida.
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[ts1]

Kymco makes great economy scooters (less than 200 cc) but when they try to make 400, 500 or 700 cc scooters, they become just as expensive and not quite as good as their Japanese or European counterparts.

I don't agree in every aspect.

My 2007 Xciting 500 (carburetor without ABS) had a list price (from importer MSA/Germany) of 4895 euro. Much cheaper than any competitor, Burgman and Majesty 400 were already above 6000 euro. Only the Atlantic 500 was below 6000.
Unfortunately Kymco threw many successors of the old Xciting on the market and the price raised above 6000 (competitors still more expensive).
Scooters with the same price (below 5000 euro) had at most 250cc and less touring qualities.

And if you speak about 700 cc scooters, you obviously already have experience with the MyRoad. How many km/miles and years?
BTW, MyRoads list price is 7995 euro, still much cheaper than Burgman 650 or ...

[axy]

I haven't heard of any of the mainland Chinese bikes being considered "as good," quality-wise as any of the Taiwanese bikes. Supposedly some are getting there, but one that I hear mentioned a lot has a good local dealer (open about 14 mos., so far), and he admits he's replaced entire engines under warranty... something the SYM/Kymco/Genuine dealer has not had to do on any of his bikes, in three years.
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I think that we do not know exactly what all Kymco repair shops are doing at a given moment, do we?

Btw. Honda is considered to be a top-quality producer of bikes, yet, a friend of mine had engine replaced on his brand new CBR1000RR after several hundred kilometers and within a week of rolling out from the shop. It is just a matter of statistics when one of the bikes will roll out from production line as faulty.

You can hear such stories in car world too, I have some horror stories that involve quite expensive cars like Mercedes from AMG gamma or BMW M3/M5, all within warranty.

But, to get back to the topic, watch the Chinese competition. I named one model - Keeway Outlook 125/150. Take a look at the price and quality tag. They are getting better and better.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5266/pc100522qx0.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8611/pc050522ns1.jpg

This scoot is around 2800 US$ on the road.

Two weeks ago I bought liquid cooled Chinese quad Bashan BS200. For 2800 US$ on the road I got 200 cc, 15 hp engine with gas preloaded shocks, 4 gears and reverse. I think Kymco`s pricing for quads is quite shameful and exaggerated - 50 cc automatic quad costs here 4000+ US$, while 200-250 cc with CVT would cost around 7000 US$. I think we can agree that money does not fall off the tree, especially not today.

Anyhow, time will tell. Both Piaggio and Kymco are now effectively ***CHINESE*** scooters, being produced in China and not Taiwan or Italz. I think that the day is not so far when "Chinese" will not be a synonym for low quality. Two days ago I bought Gekko full-sized integral helmet for 35 US$ with tax included. You will say - it is low quality and it will break, it will not protect you in the crash. To the contrary, it has all CE certificates, it is made of policarbonate and my gf has been using the same for a year, not a single sign of wear on it. The brand is Gekko - 10 years ago I paid around 200 US$ for much worse helmet from Nolan than this one.

Times are changing and I am not sure that big names like Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Kymco are exactly on the right path. Where I live, their sales have dropped significantly while low-quality-el-cheapo-noname Chinese scooter sales have skyrocketed. Yet, few years ago everybody was making fun of people who purchased Baotians 50 cc 4T that could tag along at max speed of 25 mph on flat surface...

[jprestonian]

No; of course -- my mention was only one anecdotal data point.  :)

I really can't judge the quality of of a scooter from photos, though -- the Chinese have always produced good-looking scooters. When I visited the shop here that carries the supposedly high-quality Chinese brand (which I won't mention), they looked awesome. Then, I sat on one, and put my hands on the controls. All of the switches looked and felt like very cheap imitations of what one would find on a Honda, a Kymco, a Yamaha. The fit of the plastic body panels was not very good -- there were visible gaps. Even compared to the three Chinese Kymco bikes (Agility models and Super 8), these bikes were not up-to-snuff on close inspection.

Still, I think you're right -- the day is coming when the Chinese will be much more competitive, but so far, most of the importers in the U.S. are not paying for the quality to compete on anything other than price... and every day on the local craigslist, I see two dozen nearly-new Chinese scooters for sale for every 10+ year old Japanese scooter. They're always low mileage (I don't see any Quangji, Roketa, CFMoto, Flyscooters or Bashan bikes on this list (bottom of page)), and the ads typically mention that they either won't start or won't run (usually easily fixed, so someone who likes working on such things can always get an even BETTER price!). And since one manufacturer in China will often build scores or hundreds of "brands" in varying levels of quality, none of the Chinese manufacturers are even attempting to build brand awareness... which dilutes the whole idea of knowable quality.

When the Chinese have bikes that can truly compete with Kymco, they'll be a priced a lot closer to Kymco, believe me.
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[axy]

No; of course -- my mention was only one anecdotal data point.  

I really can't judge the quality of of a scooter from photos, though -- the Chinese have always produced good-looking scooters. When I visited the shop here that carries the supposedly high-quality Chinese brand (which I won't mention), they looked awesome. Then, I sat on one, and put my hands on the controls. All of the switches looked and felt like very cheap imitations of what one would find on a Honda, a Kymco, a Yamaha. The fit of the plastic body panels was not very good -- there were visible gaps. Even compared to the three Chinese Kymco bikes (Agility models and Super , these bikes were not up-to-snuff on close inspection.

Still, I think you're right -- the day is coming when the Chinese will be much more competitive, but so far, most of the importers in the U.S. are not paying for the quality to compete on anything other than price... and every day on the local craigslist, I see two dozen nearly-new Chinese scooters for sale for every 10+ year old Japanese scooter. They're always low mileage (I don't see any Quangji, Roketa, CFMoto, Flyscooters or Bashan bikes on this list (bottom of page)), and the ads typically mention that they either won't start or won't run (usually easily fixed, so someone who likes working on such things can always get an even BETTER price!). And since one manufacturer in China will often build scores or hundreds of "brands" in varying levels of quality, none of the Chinese manufacturers are even attempting to build brand awareness... which dilutes the whole idea of knowable quality.

When the Chinese have bikes that can truly compete with Kymco, they'll be a priced a lot closer to Kymco, believe me.
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Wise man has spoken. Your last three sentences are especially important/intriguing.

I am asking a question - is it the quality control that costs so much or brand-hype (awareness, as you said) and "user support" down the road?

I think that Adly and Keeway are doing a good job in that area so far and we will be hearing more about them.
Also, Zongshen (in small displacement bike world) made a great leap forward. A friend of mine had their 200 cc cross motorcycle that was literally a copy of my ex. Yamaha TW125 (there was also version TW200 in USA). The quality of build was very good except tires that had to be replaced immediately.

Take a look at Zongshen GS250.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zongshen_GS_200-250

It costs around the same as Kymco People 200S.

All these things make you wonder what exactly are we paying for and what is the real fair price of the product. For example, Beverly 300 Cruiser goes for around 7000 US$, the same as People 300i S. Are they all going crazy with these prices? The same Kymco is close to 20 % more expensive for 1 hp and 50 cc more?!? The same with Beverly 250 vs. Beverly 300.

[norcal1]

I bought a Kymco because there aren't 50,000 of them around here. Sometimes it's nice to have something a little different than everybody else.

[jprestonian]

It's not just cheaper labor, but also inferior materials in many cases. Almost all of the Chinese bike forums will advise buyers to immediately replace all the fuel lines, as an example.

But also warranties add to the cost. If there are more Chinese manufacturers than you can count on one hand that offer and honor a parts/labor warranty, I would be amazed. I know of several that will send you a new part once you send back the bad one, within the warranty period, but I know of none that include labor as part of their warranty coverage (that's probably changed since last I checked, but again... who are they?).
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[wordslinger]

I bought a Kymco because there aren't 50,000 of them around here. Sometimes it's nice to have something a little different than everybody else.

..i'm seeing more and more KYMCOs on the road...

..from 50 all the way up to 500ccs...

..i've only been able to talk to one to invite 'm over....

 

[Agent Bob]

I bought a Kymco because they advertise in national motorcycle magazines so they're serious about being in the American market; My People S200 was last year's leftover for $2,999 out the door with tax and tags; the two year warranty; the dealer is only six miles away and carries BMW, Kawasaki and Suzukis so he's not going anywhere like some of these cheap Chinese scoot dealers that disapear after a year or two ,so I'll be able to get service, and what I could read about Kymco on the internet was favorable.

[sidthesloth]

The comment about replacing the fuel lines reminds me of a Daewoo Lanos my wife had. The breather hose from the rocker cover to the inlet manifold was such poor quality that when I pinched it between my thumb and finger I actually pulled a section of the hose out. Why do I ride a Kymco? it is a fun scoot and seems to be well built.

[zombie]

I found mine next to a boat shed. The owner wanted $300.00 fot it. Yeah Kymco is good!

[wordslinger]

...i think i saw a zx today...sittin in waist high grass...


..imma go find out tomorrow...

[zombie]

BUY IT! Offer to cut the grass for free, and tell them you have to haul the scoot away to do the job. I see a FRANKENSTEIN being born...

[wordslinger]

...all i could see was th' front cowling...

..it looked like yours...but redder....i might be wrong, but it really looked like one...

 

[zombie]

Don't back-pedal now