Reversing effects of 10% Ethanol in fuel

[CROSSBOLT]

I know I will start a hailstorm with this but here goes anyway: I have tried several "Anti-Ethanol" products in a small car with no apparent effect. How 'bout adding up to 10% diesel to the unleaded fuel that has up to 10% Ethanol in it? I have read on the general internet responses ALL over the place. What do youse guys think? Anybody tried it?

Karl

[ophelia]

What kind of anti-ethanol effects are you looking for in a small car? Does it not run well on E10? What does a successful anti-ethanol product do for you?

I know my idea of anti-ethanol treatment stops ethanol from coming out of solution so my carb bikes don't get gummed up in the Spring. But I don't know from your request if that's the kind of effect you may be looking for. 

[ts1]

Diesel has virtually no octane value. You could ruin your engine extremely fast. But then don't blame Ethanol!

[MotoRandy123]

Diesel is basically kerosene, a good solvent but won't do much to ethanol.
Most products are very vague about excatly what they do other than drain
your wallet. The best solution so far is to mix water into it and drain off the
resulting water/alcohol mix. I wish the Feds had given us an option to buy
ethanol free fuel!

[08087]

What problems are you having with e 10?

I boat and in a water environment it can be a major problem, if you’re in a humid climate and leave the car sitting for some time try a product like Sta-Bil or add an fuel water separator to your fuel line.

As for the damage that E-10 can do to some components, fiberglass or plastic tanks fuel lines etc, I have no good answer for you other than to change out the parts affected.

[Vivo]

Live with it... yes 08, ethanol is a problem in boats/water crafts.... ethanol affects those weak plastic rubber parts especially old model vehicles... I bought a brand new car last 2006 ... used fuel with 10% ethanol ever since with no problems...

Diesel in gasoline? not a good idea.... diesel doesn't ignite with a spark... heat and very, very, very high compression detonates diesel fuel...

[CROSSBOLT]

Looking to reverse the poor mileage resulting from 10% Ethanol. That stuff raises the effective octane rating but more importantly, I think, dilutes the BTU content.

Karl

[ts1]

Diesel not only lowers octane rating, but destroys it.
And you would need fuel ignition, diesel can't be gasificated.

[CROSSBOLT]

I also think the only way to evaluate this "bright idea" is to test it. The API way would be a test engine like they use in the petroleum labs. The other way would be to try it in a road machine like a car or scooter. I am reluctant to do this in the scoot since they seem to be stressed pretty high and I do not want to venture somewhere I would not like to be like a broken engine or crapped out on a trip. However, adding ethanol seems to have a downside and the government had no second thoughts to forcing me to do it. I in the past added "alcohol" to fuel to absorb water. Many old timers added diesel and Marvel Mystery Oil to gas for various reasons, most unprovable. I have done some calculations thanks to Wikipedia. Diesel has an octane rating (RON) of 15-25. Gas is 91-92 RON and 82-83 MON for a combined 86.5-87.5 R+M/2. Ethanol is 108.6 RON and 89.7 MON for a 99.15 R+M/2. High heat value for Gasoline, Diesel and Ethanol is 20000, 19300 and 12000 BTU/lb respectively. Computations, unverified, show that 90% 87 gas and 10% Ethanol equals 88.2 R+M/2 octane with an equivalent high heat value of 19.2k BTU/lb. Adding 10% Diesel to 10% Ethanol diluted gas would give 81.5 equivalent octane and only 19.13k BTU/lb heat. Octane too low and heat not quite back to straight gas nor 10% ethanol. For this logic I see no reason to try it.

Karl

PS: My head hurts......

[boo]

http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

Shows stations in your area that sell ethenol free gas.
So far I have found three in my area.

[Fogie]

http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

Shows stations in your area that sell ethenol free gas.
So far I have found three in my area.

That site looks like a useful resource, but for whatever reason, it contains no information about stations in Toronto (the largest city in Canada).

For those Canadians that don't know, Shell carries 3 grades of gas: 87-, 89- and 91-octane, which they advertize as containing 10%, 5% and zero % ethanol, respectively. I understand that Shell supplies gas to several "non oil company" outlets, such as Canadian Tire; so, it's at least possible to avoid ethanol in Canada.

If you're an anal-retentive type like me, this only leaves you with the problem of whatever's left in the hose from the last guy that used the pump, and it's probably 10%; don't laugh, in terms of the typically-small volume of scooter gas tanks, it could be a significant proportion. I deal with this by taking a small 5-liter can (that fits under the seat) with me when I buy gas, and pump a few liters into the can before I fill the bike; when I get home, I dump the can into my car.

[MotoRandy123]

Here most pumps are a single hose and they want to go to 15% so they mandated you buy 4 gallons
to dilute the 15%. Problem is the scoot only takes 2 gallons at a typical fill up. They say just go to a
place with multiple hoses but that would be a few states away!

There is a marina 100 miles from me with the pure gas and it's only $1.50 per gallon more than the
normal stuff...

[ophelia]

For those Canadians that don't know, Shell carries 3 grades of gas: 87-, 89- and 91-octane, which they advertize as containing 10%, 5% and zero % ethanol, respectively. I understand that Shell supplies gas to several "non oil company" outlets, such as Canadian Tire; so, it's at least possible to avoid ethanol in Canada.

I know Chevron here in Vancouver has 94 AKI 0% ethanol delivered from its own separate pump. The Shell nearby has a separate pump too, but not all Shells here pump ethanol-free separately.

[Fogie]

I know Chevron here in Vancouver has 94 AKI 0% ethanol delivered from its own separate pump. The Shell nearby has a separate pump too, but not all Shells here pump ethanol-free separately.

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement to Ontario, or possibly eastern Canada.

Separate highest-grade pumps were quite common around here until about a year ago; then, the stations all seemed to undertake pump upgrades to a single hose. That's when I started using the little gas can to drain the hose.  Canadian Tire sells a small 5-liter can that I've managed to fit under the seats of two different scooters.

[blue]

Better of just adding a ounce or so of jet fuel to your tank but dont make it a every day think when you fill up. Addatives are good for just cleaning out your jets.