Drive belt replacement

[art]

   Been having the same fun trying to track down a s200 belt. (looking for something a little longer) It seems other than bando the Mitsuboshi is your only other choice. But getting real #s has been difficult.  I did found some sights in russian that cross referenced the #s but can't confirm any of it yet.
  Going to try a malossi = but have heard from another member the #s are not true    and I know for a fact not all malossi #S can be trusted either.  OH well trial and error we'll figure something out.
   Wish gates was on the ball and simplified this whole mess  

[TechGuy]

I guess on the belt, I am not willing to "save" 30 bucks in the hopes that the gates/malossi/goodyear generic belt will perform as well as the 60 OEM belt. The OEM belt was chosen to meet the engineering specifications of the intended use. I read all the time at too many forums about the non-EOM belts failing much sooner than the OEM.

I value my time more than the 30 dollars I "might" save in the hopes I can get equal performance to a part that has a cost of 5 cents per KM assuming a cost of $60 USD and lifetime of 12,000 km.

WOW!  I gues I just now... literally figured out that your belt cost is about the same as your fuel costs PER MILE if you assume a $6 dollar fill-up for a 120 mile tank.... i know this is KM belt vs. MILE gas but it is a fair percentage of your running costs. Never mind if you get the labor done at the shop.  But I assume anyone shopping for a non-OEM belt is not having it installed by a shop for $100 / per hour labor cost.

[TechGuy]

From ModernVespa tonight:

I don't know why I didn't learn the first time, but I tried another third party drive belt for my GT200L.  This time it was a Furioso.  The belt snapped at 2,500 miles!  Below is a picture of the remnants.  Luckily it didn't get all wrapped up like last time and was easy to remove.  I had my wife bring a belt and my tools out and I changed the belt to an OEM on the side of the highway.  Not a fun prospect in 98 degree, high humidity Florida.  From now on I am using only OEM and replacing every 8 thousand miles as the service manual recommends.  This is my 4th snapped belt. When will I ever learn!  Luckily I came out of all these without damage to me or the bike.  I in no way endorse this as it could be very dangerous.  Here are my stats on the 4 belts I have snapped:

first OEM belt: 11,500 miles.
Malossi belt: 6,000 miles
second OEM belt: 10,000 miles
Furioso belt: 2,500 miles

Be Safe!  Don't be like me!

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=992478#992478

[Dion]

I too am victim of aftermarket belt slop. I wonder if that is a real phrase?

One question seems to be underpinning a lot of the observations, What are the actual dimensions of a brand new Kymco, OEM belt? Several of the suggestions for replacement have close to a 40mm discrepancy in belt length and I've never seen what a factory supplied K 23100 measures out at. Perhaps one of the chronic failure problems is due to a wrong size being used? I've been dealing with a very good mechanical engineer in Michigan recently who is heavily involved in the motorcycle industry and his thoughts and experience in Snow Mobile and ATV drive lines was eye opening. 

In essence he thought that a good aftermarket belt could be satisfactory IF the size was right. The problem for him was that most belt systems use a jockey wheel to accommodate the variable ratio adjustments. If there wasn't one on the machine, you were better off using the stock design.

These are just random thoughts offered to add to the mix. - However, if you do have a brand new belt, most of the old fashioned auto parts houses have a special belt measuring fixture / tool which will give the absolute number.  It could be interesting to find out if all the stock belts are the same length. 

I have a 2006 P250 which has about 18,000 KM and am shopping for an Exciting 250 specifically for touring back roads in the Upper Midwest and central Canada. I also am the caretaker of another eleven motorcycles dating back to the late 1930's but prefer to ride the P 250 for everyday riding ... the old bikes are normally ridden for short distances as they are not too reliable ...

[TechGuy]

I don't have the OEM belt out of the bike anymore... it's in the bike...

I found I didn't want to save $20 and worry about it.  I just ordered the OEM and I quit worrying about it. I looked for alternative but they were so close in price... but were they "right"?  It was only about $60 USD for the 100% correct one.

[wordslinger]

..itsa delima...


"http://kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3017.0"

[Dion]

A modest update - on two sites, ( Monster Scooter Parts - and an Australian forum )I found a direct number from Gates which will work on a P 250. Gates # is PL 30904 and the dimensions are 894 / 23 / 28. This directly correlates with the Kymco piece but for some unknown reason, Gates doesn't list it for the Kymco. But ... they do list it for a Honda Helix.

I think one of the problems I have had with other belt changes is I didn't realize there is a 'seating in' process of about 10 to 15 miles to help the side walls of the belt get a better fit. When the scoot was bought new, I did a fast break in ... after about 100km of stop and go, partial throttle acceleration and letting the engine and trans cool down two or three times. This most likely let everything settle in - and the Belt lasted about 11,000 km.

After I changed the belt - I just gassed it and the belt failed at just over 4000 km. On another thread I posted some information from Gates which goes over break in and failure diagnosis. I'd never seen this stuff before. Hope the information helps or at least simplifies ordering parts. 

Now to figure out what works on an Exciting 250 ...

[axy]

I think one of the problems I have had with other belt changes is I didn't realize there is a 'seating in' process of about 10 to 15 miles to help the side walls of the belt get a better fit. When the scoot was bought new, I did a fast break in ... after about 100km of stop and go, partial throttle acceleration and letting the engine and trans cool down two or three times. This most likely let everything settle in - and the Belt lasted about 11,000 km.

I have once already commented on this forum that there is no "seating in" for toothed belts used in scooters.

It exists only for V shaped belts used in some other vehicles like those things used on snow, whatever they are called.

[TechGuy]

I am going to guess that the reason Gates doesn't list a belt is that the angle of the belt (the angle between the top edge of the belt and the side walls of the belt is defined by the manufacturer)



The Gates belt as mainly manufactured for industrial applications. The belt in the CVT transmission is a "specific use belt" -'power transmission belt?' not a "general use belt". While you may find a "general" belt to fit, it is not designed to the tolerance or heat or stress tolerances of a specific use belt. The above chart shows the standard belts made by gates and others.  They are designed to be used to move blowers, fans and other wheels and pulleys and the loads are no where near the level required of the power transmission we are putting them into.

Pony up the extra bucks and save your self the time and trouble associated with changing the belt...another time.

[dejzebmoorbn]

Hello, all -

Sorry I am a little slow. Is the general consensus to stick with the OEM belt or replace with a Gates/Dayco? I'm much less worried about price and more concerned with a broken or stretched belt. Thanks.   

[jprestonian]

I'm about to swap belts again, so original, 1st replacement (still on bike @ 33,000km; installed at 17,000km). All OEM.

I still can't figure out why anyone would buy a Kevlar belt, let alone a SECOND one.  ;)
.

[zombie]

In HIGH HP applications kevlar is mandatory. It is also SHORT lived. For OEM applications oem belts.

[zombie]

I should also state the HIGH HP is relative. I plan on 20ish HP in my 50cc. The OEM belt would break on the first launch due to its small size. A Kevlar belt in the 500cc range will handle approx 200hp but for a short while. It lasts no longer in lessor hp applications due to it's nature. Kevlar is a specific purpose belt, and any other use is wasting money... as you all have found.